The Truth About The Cornell Seven + A New Pandemic?

00:00:03 Speaker 1: My name is Charlie Kirk. 00:00:05 Speaker 2: I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Turning Point USA college chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA high school chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life, and I encourage you to do the same. 00:00:45 Speaker 1: Here I am. Lord, use me. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. 00:00:56 Speaker 2: Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show. a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com. That is noblegoldinvestments.com. 00:01:17 Speaker 1: All right, welcome everybody. It's October 6, 2026. We are here at the Y Refi Studios in Phoenix, Arizona. Honored to be with you all across this fruited plain, this beautiful country of ours. So we're nearing the midterms. We got breaking news to get to. This story was going viral on X yesterday, and it was brought to you by none other than TPUSA Frontline's Brandon Dre and Taylor Hanson. They were down at the border yesterday and Taylor joins us in studio. Honored to have you here, my friend. It's just a quick hop and a jump up from the border up to Phoenix. Happy to have you, man. Yep, thanks for having me. This story, if you guys haven't heard about it, there is an autonomous zone that has developed right at the border where they're trying to construct the border wall and there was a tree in place that a bunch of If you just put your mind back in the Summer of Love, the Chaz Chop fiasco in Seattle, Washington, it is similar to that. You have a bunch of crazed leftist Antifa types camping out at the border trying to block the demolition of a tree to take out this tree that would get in the way of a border wall. Why don't you tell us what you saw here? We've got some great footage. And you guys ended up getting into some scuffles with these folks. Yeah, to say the least. Well, it was fascinating. 00:02:36 Speaker 3: We went down there the day before because they were doing a direct day of action. They called for this national direct day of action from people all around the country to come down and be in solidarity with those in Lockeal that are stopping this genocidal administration. 00:02:50 Speaker 1: Lockeal? Lockeal? Lockeal, Arizona. Okay, it's a town. Yeah, it's a town. It's actually a ghost town, so it's literally completely abandoned. 00:02:57 Speaker 4: Interesting. 00:02:58 Speaker 3: To put it in perspective, we had to drive from Patagonia down to Locule. It took about an hour and 10 minutes, and it is completely unpaved off-road. So these people are coming from all around the country and driving. They're going to fly into Tucson, and then they're driving hours down this unpaved road to go and then camp on private property right on the, basically, exterior of what is the Roosevelt Easement. So by doing so. 00:03:19 Speaker 1: That's the picture of the Roosevelt Easement. Yeah, that's the Roosevelt Easement. That road right there is the easement. 00:03:24 Speaker 3: So you have— actually, this area, they're trying to build a double border wall because it's called a quick hitter spot. So this means that you have cartel activity, human smuggling, drug smuggling activity happening in this corridor at a higher rate than anywhere else. So it's a high priority to get this double border wall up. But these activists, they've kind of almost posed themselves as environmentalists. And as this has dragged on, it's been going on since July 27th. 00:03:45 Speaker 1: This is what's hilarious. July 27th? July 27th. This is ridiculous. I'm going to make some phone calls because I find this to be ridiculous. So these squatters, these criminals... antifa types have been squatting on this land and growing in numbers since july and they are acting like environmentalists about a cottonwood tree a cottonwood tree folks these are a dime a dozen i'm i like a cottonwood tree as much as the next guy but it's not like some endangered species it's not some precious you know rare type of tree or something it's just blocking where they need to build the wall but they took it down and ultimately but before this happened You guys actually got your tires slashed. Tell us about this. 00:04:30 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we had gone in, and within 15 minutes, you know, I was with our camera op, and Brandon actually had gone off alone to kind of cover the other side of the encampment, and Border Patrol had made a mistake. They had thought that Brandon was actually part of. 00:04:43 Speaker 1: This protest crew. He does kind of look left-coated sometimes. 00:04:46 Speaker 3: Well, they hadn't, you know, they knew that the guys up top were good. You know, me and our camera op were good, but they didn't know Brandon yet. 00:04:52 Speaker 1: So the Border Patrol guys down there, they sent him under the tape to the private property, and... these guys are like, what? 00:04:58 Speaker 3: You don't belong over here. And they immediately start assaulting him. You know, they broke his meta glasses. They tried punching him, tried breaking his camera. So naturally he says, I'm getting out of here. He returns to the car, obviously to make sure he's physically okay and to just check. 00:05:11 Speaker 1: On the car. He had a hunch. 00:05:12 Speaker 3: And I filmed a standup probably five minutes before this happened. I said, you know, hopefully, you know, they don't mess with our car. He goes back to the car and they've completely slashed both of the tires. And what I found interesting is the person that we first saw get arrested or detained. They were then released, and that was the girl who then proceeded to then slash the tires. 00:05:33 Speaker 1: So we know who did it? Was she arrested? They were sitting there mocking us. They literally are sitting there. 00:05:38 Speaker 3: After she was re-released, and they're like, oh, your tires are so flat, your tires are screwed, and they were just sitting there. 00:05:43 Speaker 1: Mocking us back and forth. 00:05:44 Speaker 5: But were they arrested? 00:05:46 Speaker 1: No, nobody was arrested. So this is a bigger problem here. Okay, so let's play, this is Brandon talking about The car, the assault, which is completely unacceptable. Sock 22. 00:05:59 Speaker 6: Basically, they found out we're with Turning Point, and they assaulted me, grabbed my Osmo, ripped my Meta sunglasses off of my face. 00:06:11 Speaker 1: You can see. Broke those. Slashed our tires on our rental car. Let's see here. Got this goon over here just yelling at me. 00:06:26 Speaker 6: And now we got these construction trucks coming to tear down this tree that all these far-left activists are protesting over because they don't want the tree torn down so that they can't finish. 00:06:41 Speaker 1: Building the border wall. 00:06:42 Speaker 6: And I told them, I'm like, you guys are all posing as environmentalists when the only thing you care about is the wall because you have nothing. 00:06:48 Speaker 1: Better to do with your time. Yeah. And so there was a whole confrontation that happened. But the point here is that they are allowed. So the first question I asked you when you came to the studio this morning, I was like, how are they allowed? Because that easement, that road right there is federal land. The Border Patrol is there. But they're camping literally feet away on private property. Why are they allowed to do that? It's a good question. 00:07:15 Speaker 3: It's like a patchwork of federal reservation lands. and of private land kind of in this place. So the private land owners that happen to own all this land along the easement, they are in support of these protesters and in support of their direct action. 00:07:28 Speaker 1: Why would they be in support of a bunch of drug smugglers that can get it? It's a good question. 00:07:32 Speaker 3: Well, and you have other groups like this all throughout Arizona and through Texas as well. I mean, in Arivaca, you have similar things going on. So this isn't anything out of the normal. It's just the fact that no media has really known this has been going on since July 27th. And the fact that this has been able to go on since then, it needs to be addressed. And that was the whole point of coming down here, was to shine a light on it and say, hey, you know, admin, you guys need your help down here. 00:07:56 Speaker 1: These Border Patrol guys are suffering. Well, they should all be arrested. 00:07:59 Speaker 5: Well, it seems fascinating to me. You said people are coming in from all over. And I assume you've seen, are you just running into the same people almost anywhere you go in the country when you look for these Antifa types, like? How many people are actually involved in this movement. 00:08:14 Speaker 1: Such as it is? That's a good question. 00:08:16 Speaker 3: I wouldn't say you run into the exact same people, but it's the exact same organizations, the exact same money, the funding, the mutual aid movements. I mean, we have videos there. It's from Minnesota to Arizona in solidarity. So Minnesota is kind of– it's been odd. The past two years or so, it's kind of become ground zero. Portland, Seattle, those used to be ground zero for the actual organizing and grassroots and the mutual aid movements. But Minnesota has kind of become– that new hotspot. So you see all the funding, you know, I covered a protest in LA on May day, all of their funding, everything that they had supplied came directly from the guys in Minnesota. So I would have, I would say, you know, I can't a hundred percent confirm that their stuff is coming from Minnesota, but there are people from out of state, from Minnesota, from Portland, from Seattle, from these other flashpoint areas that have been flying into this area. 00:09:02 Speaker 1: All right. I want to play SOC 20. Cause this is what I'm zeroing in on that. This is unacceptable. You, you filmed this And it's all these Antifa types running around. They grab a couple of them, and then they just let them go. I don't, for the life of me, understand what the heck's going on here at SOT20. You can't be over here. Too bad. 00:09:18 Speaker 5: Hey, I got you. 00:09:19 Speaker 7: You can't be over here. 00:09:21 Speaker 1: You can't be over here. 00:09:28 Speaker 8: All right here he goes yep. 00:09:46 Speaker 1: Let them go. 00:09:47 Speaker 5: Let them go. You need to let them go right now. 00:09:51 Speaker 1: Let go. 00:09:52 Speaker 8: You need to let them go. 00:09:53 Speaker 9: Let go. 00:09:53 Speaker 1: Let go. 00:09:54 Speaker 9: Let go. 00:09:54 Speaker 4: Look at that every single one of those are women every single one of those people attacking that border patrol agent. 00:10:08 Speaker 5: It seems like every single one of them it's like okay you you're shoving an officer bam 10 years yeah thanks yeah come. 00:10:14 Speaker 1: Again done Yeah. I mean, this is insane. And this is why I said I need to make some calls because like this is that's unacceptable that any law enforcement officer in this country gets treated that way. If you touch a cop, you're going to jail. Simple as that. When you were down there, did what did you talk with law enforcement, Border Patrol? Did they express frustration that they haven't been able to do what needs to be done to deal with these frickin thugs that are obstructing law enforcement? 00:10:45 Speaker 3: Yeah, we can say that for the least. I've talked to countless Border Patrol agents down there, both me and my camera op. I know Brandon spoke to some as well. And every single one of them are frustrated. They feel like they don't have the support. They feel like they're being played with. And I have a quote from one that I'll read to you guys. I'm not going to attribute it to him because, obviously, I don't want to get him in trouble. But he feels like Border Patrol and the rest of his teams are being held hostage by far-left anarchists. This is actually how, and this is leadership within border patrol. 00:11:13 Speaker 1: This is how they feel all across the board. And it doesn't help that the local sheriffs came down and they stood with the protesters in solidarity. You're kidding. 00:11:21 Speaker 5: Whoa. 00:11:22 Speaker 9: Yep. 00:11:22 Speaker 3: So they have no help from the sheriff's department. They have no help from local police departments, any outsource. 00:11:26 Speaker 1: You flood the zone. You send a bunch of guys down there and you wait for them to step on that federal land and do any of this. I mean, right there, there's already excuse to, to arrest seven, eight of those women. cackling hens you hear them screaming it's. 00:11:42 Speaker 5: Interesting just how it works it's a very big change from how far leftism has historically been it used to be a more masculine movement but now it's like they've practically learned to weaponize like i am a screaming woman you don't really feel comfortable roughing up a screaming woman even if they're getting in your face shoving you hitting you But they know, and the left knows this. We mentioned this when we had the ICE stuff last year with the shootings, that they are basically intentionally trying to create some sort of violent crisis with their activists. 00:12:16 Speaker 1: I totally agree. But here's the good news. The good news is they got the tree felled. They felled the tree. Play the B-roll again. 00:12:23 Speaker 5: No, 23. 00:12:23 Speaker 10: Oh, yes. 00:12:40 Speaker 9: Die! Die! 00:12:42 Speaker 4: Die! 00:12:47 Speaker 10: Die! 00:12:48 Speaker 1: Die! 00:13:01 Speaker 3: That moment, it reminded me of the 2020, or the newest video of the meltdowns. 00:13:05 Speaker 1: Or like the women at inauguration. The 2016, yeah. When we were filming, that's what it reminded me of. 00:13:09 Speaker 5: I'm just sad we clearly had to remove some swearing there, because it just sounds like they're screaming. 00:13:12 Speaker 3: Directly after that, they started to all chant in unison, never forget, as if this was like 9-11, right? 00:13:17 Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, I guess this is equivalent. Oh, that was beautiful. I almost want to play that again. Play the B-roll again, at least. Yeah, play the B-roll. It's so good, though, to hear them screaming. And I did hear a couple male screams. Never forget. So listen, here's what needs to be done. You flood that zone and you arrest every single one of them and you touch a cop, you're going away for 10 years. Okay? If that was actually how we dealt with these miscreants, I'm trying to find nice words other than the pejoratives that I really want to use. If this is how we dealt with them, this wouldn't be happening. You go away for 10 years, you touch a cop. That needs to be the standard. We need the border wall right here. By the way, these people are ridiculous. This is the most insane objection to anything. This is a hotspot on the border where cartels are smuggling people and drugs. It needs to be shut down. This is poison coming into our country. This is crimes against humanity coming into our country. And these idiots are worried about a cottonwood tree. Well, they're not actually worried about the cottonwood tree. That's the thing is Yeah, they may care a little bit about nature. They may care about the cottonwood tree, but that is the tool that they are using for their activism to actually get this border wall shut down. It's just that with leftists, you see this time and time again through 16 through now is they attach themselves to any movement, to any topic that they see to further their revolution or their goals. 00:14:43 Speaker 3: You know, 2016 BLM, then the pro-Palestinian movement with the riots and everything going on. And they just kind of hop from one thing to another because this didn't work or this advanced our cause at least this much. Okay, what's the next thing to advance our cause? And that's exactly what they're using here. 00:14:59 Speaker 1: It goes to a deeper, more fundamental level. I mean, you couldn't get conservatives to do this at all. You couldn't. We're just wired differently. We care about our church. We care about our family. We care about building our business. We care about building our kids up. You don't see conservatives go camp out in a field protecting a. 00:15:21 Speaker 5: And they definitely don't slash your tires of someone along the way. The low-grade violence from Antifa, to me, is just a perfect encapsulation of what they are. They're spiteful. 00:15:35 Speaker 1: They don't believe in... debate. 00:15:37 Speaker 5: They don't believe in dialogue. 00:15:38 Speaker 1: They actually want to. 00:15:40 Speaker 5: Find every means possible to hurt you, including breaking the law. And that's why they're dangerous, and that's why they need to be purged from public life. 00:15:47 Speaker 1: Or prison. I'm telling you, exactly. The reason this happens, the reason they're allowed to throw tantrums... They don't have enough fear. They do not fear law enforcement. They need to fear law enforcement. Well, I'll tell you this. 00:15:57 Speaker 3: I'm fairly well-traveled, at least I think so. And last year. 00:16:01 Speaker 1: You've been everywhere, man. I've been around. Like Johnny Cash. I've been shot at. 00:16:05 Speaker 8: I've witnessed. 00:16:06 Speaker 3: horrific things in person, what happened to others. And I would rather get in a firefight in Africa, right? I was in Africa for a month last year. I'd rather get in five firefights than have to cover one of these events again. And why, you know, that sounds crazy is these people. 00:16:21 Speaker 1: Are so unpredictable. 00:16:22 Speaker 3: They're so volatile that any second can just alter your entire day or your entire life, right? 00:16:30 Speaker 1: They're just so. 00:16:30 Speaker 3: Unhinged to the extent that you don't know what they're going to do, at least in the situation where I'm in a firefight overseas or something, one of these more sketchy situations that it seems like on the surface, there's more control there. I have security, my security, they're professionals, right? 00:16:45 Speaker 1: In this situation, it's me, Brandon, and our camera operator. In the middle of nowhere. An hour and a half away from civilization. And you're surrounded by law enforcement, though. Yeah. That's the thing. Surrounded by Border Patrol, but not the. 00:16:54 Speaker 3: Sheriff's Department because they refuse to actually enforce the law. 00:16:58 Speaker 1: What do you think the story there is? Do you think they're true believers or they just don't want to mess with these activists and get in their crosshairs? They're scared of the jurisdictional issues as well. 00:17:06 Speaker 3: I mean, Border Patrol is worried about jurisdiction. Everybody's worried about jurisdiction here because it's such a weird patchwork area of land. I think they've seen what has happened to ICE agents around the country, and they just want nothing to do with it. 00:17:17 Speaker 1: And frankly... I don't blame them. Do I think they should have went and stood in solidarity? No, right? That's pretty cowardly. 00:17:23 Speaker 3: But you can't really blame them when you've seen what's happened to all of our ICE agents around the country and the way that they're already talking. 00:17:29 Speaker 1: We're going to persecute these people. Yeah, that's really what's going on here is the admin is probably trying to take a soft-touch approach to not create a news cycle. But the problem is when you do this, you get this whole other news cycle where you get a Chas Chops situation right at the border. And now it went viral on social media. 00:17:45 Speaker 5: You want to avoid viral videos of, I mean, certainly like someone getting shot, but Antifa members getting arrested, getting charged, getting imprisoned. 00:17:54 Speaker 1: We'll cheer you. 00:17:55 Speaker 5: Zero negative impact to that. And they've howled about that, those guys who attacked the ICE facility in Dallas. They got decade-plus prison sentences. The left is freaked out. I've only heard support from the right, and no one else really knows about it. 00:18:06 Speaker 1: No, you would get roundly applauded if you threw about 20 of those idiots in prison for 10 years normal people don't support this no that's just the reality of it and by the way normal arizonans want their border shut off and they don't want fentanyl and human trafficking coming up through the south anyways taylor hansen great job story went viral an important spotlight has been placed on this border issue and uh we have you to thank for that thank you so much and great job brandon dray as well gentlemen Let's get real for a second. Are you frustrated with today's woke dating scene, the apps, the games, the endless swiping? It's a waste of time. Finding a woman who shares your values, faith, family, patriotism, if it feels nearly impossible, it doesn't have to. Selective Search, America's leading matchmaking firm, is changing the game. 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Go to selective search dot com slash California and start building the future you deserve. Man, we got a ton of emails from you guys about that border story. 00:20:03 Speaker 5: I think my favorite was the guy who said, do we have a kind of gun that shoots sound, like a sound gun that would make them poop their pants? 00:20:11 Speaker 1: We should use it on them. I don't know if we do, but we should use it on them. We should investigate whether we have some of that. There's got to be something that will just irritate the you-know-what out of them. Without further ado, Heather MacDonald, welcome back to the show. It's been too long, Heather. We've missed you. 00:20:26 Speaker 9: I've missed you too, guys. Thank you so much for having me. 00:20:29 Speaker 1: I saw you with the absolute best take on the Internet yesterday talking about the Cornell 7. And I don't even want to play into the name because there's different dudes that do different things. It's catchy. But it tells you what you need to know. All right, so just high level, and then I'm going to get your take here. A girl gets drunk and high, goes to a frat party. consensually engages in sexual activity. There's no white hats here. It's all debaucherous, gross behavior. I said on the internet yesterday, I said, this is nightmare fuel for any parent, okay? You don't want to see your kids behaving this way. But then she gets called a whore, and she admits to this. She doesn't say that it was a gang rape situation. But then she gets disinvited from a Halloween party. Her reputation is damaged. And then all of a sudden, She believes that she's been the victim of a sexual assault. This has divided the Internet. There's protests going crazy at Cornell yesterday. Here are feminists roar, all this stuff. Heather MacDonald, you are an apt observer of the human condition and of the pathogens that are infecting the modern mind. How do you view what happened at Cornell? 00:21:44 Speaker 9: Well, we're seeing the rule that you're supposed to believe survivors, but only when they tell you that they've been raped. if a putative survivor tells you she's not been raped, that's merely all the more proof that she's been raped so violently that she's in trauma and cannot possibly process her experience accurately. And because the Jane Doe, and I hope she will be eventually unmasked, sent an amazing trove of evidence suggesting that she viewed this episode, as voluntary, as consensual, I would like to submit the proposition that if you have been subjected to the second most violent felony that a female can ever experience in her life, which is rape, second only to murder, at a frat house, you do not solicit an invitation to go back to that rape den for more. And yet she was so happy when she finally got the invitation to go back and she called her alleged rapist her friends. And as you say, Andrew, it was only when the president of that frat house disinvited her for her own good because her reputation was being amazingly torn down. And we can talk about how, what a discovery, a pleasant discovery to learn that the idea of slut is still allowed on campus. But she proceeded to, you know, try and maintain as much contact with her alleged rapist as possible. But if you believe Kathy Hochul, the governor of New York, if you believe Letitia James, if you believe Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, most appallingly, if you believe the president of Cornell, who we're supposed to assume has some shred of rationality and some reality-based touch with his community, if you believe him, this was rape from the start. And what we need to do is beef up the campus rape bureaucracy even further. 00:23:58 Speaker 5: I feel like a way to more honestly frame this would be to stop calling it the Cornell 7 and start calling it the Cornell 1. Because that's who the wrongdoer here is. Well, I think there's a lot of bad behavior, but that is There's a clear difference between dissolute, immoral behavior and actively decided to get the legal system involved, turn this into a giant nationwide story to, I feel we all agree, avoid confronting the reality of one's own behavior. 00:24:28 Speaker 1: Well, exactly. Go ahead, Heather. 00:24:30 Speaker 9: Well, you know, they say you shouldn't watch legislation being made. You shouldn't watch the sausage being made. We are in a weird position now where we're watching the lie being made. the data is out there. The evidence is out there. Her texts are out there where she is exonerating her alleged rapists, where she is saying love you to one of them, where she is saying we all know that none of this was illegal, what went on that night. And yet all of that evidence is being systematically removed. Once reported, it then disappears from the record and you have this absolutely conventional, trite, you know, by the book formulaic narrative coming out, which was that this was a rape, despite the evidence that's already on the record. And we'll see, you know, whose side wins at this point. The fabulists who are committed to the idea that there is a patriarchy, because this is This is something that goes way beyond the betrayal of universities of their academic mission. This is about destroying males. That's what it's always been about. You know, we've seen the destruction of the due process protections that males should have in these kangaroo court tribunals. But the people that are committed to this narrative of a patriarchy that oppresses women have no shame. They're continuing with this, and we'll see if those wins are the people who can actually look at evidence and draw rational conclusions from it. 00:26:25 Speaker 1: Well, this you mentioned this destruction of males. I think it's very apt because Kathy Hochul, the governor of New York, has assigned Letitia James as the special prosecutor to investigate the criminality of this case, alleged criminality. And we have a clip of this special Letitia James, the most biased political prosecutor anywhere in the country, probably. I mean, Chris Mays gives her a run for her money here in Arizona. But listen to this clip. This is, you know, it's an unrelated clip, but it shows who's now going to be looking into the criminality, alleged criminality here. Sat 19. 00:27:03 Speaker 9: Stand up to an administration which is. 00:27:06 Speaker 10: Too male, too pale and too stale. 00:27:18 Speaker 9: Two male, two pale, and two stale. 00:27:21 Speaker 1: Two male, two pale, and two stale. 00:27:26 Speaker 9: Two male, two pale, two stale. And we will not go away silently. 00:27:31 Speaker 1: I really wish you would go away silently because I can't listen to you anymore. So this woman who is on record saying things like two male, two pale, two stale is now in charge of the investigation into seven fraternity brothers at Cornell. So that right there tells me she should recuse herself because she is incapable of being unbiased and letting justice go where the facts lead. Heather. 00:27:58 Speaker 9: It's just extraordinary. I mean, we're seeing it's a repeat of the Duke rape case as well. 00:28:05 Speaker 1: Explain that. Explain that. Yes. 00:28:08 Speaker 9: Well, this was something that was, I hope, not an adumbration of the just grotesque violation of the law and of due process and legal procedure down in Duke where a clearly psychotic black stripper was invited to a party at, I think, was it the rugby players? 00:28:34 Speaker 1: Lacrosse. 00:28:36 Speaker 9: Lacrosse, right. One of those preppy sports. Two male and two pale is the problem. And she was black. They were white. And she spun this story about completely brutal, violent assault on her. None of the evidence bore this out. The DNA evidence, the semen, you know, rape test kits, none of it was borne out. And yet the district attorney in Durham, North Carolina, proceeded to go after these these lacrosse players in spite of the clear exculpatory evidence. And this was, uh, brought into the, our typical meta narrative that America is both racist and patriarchal and the real sin that these lacrosse players had committed was being too pale and too male. Finally, uh, justice was done. But after years of struggle. 00:29:44 Speaker 1: They had their lives ruined, Heather. They had their lives ruined. 00:29:46 Speaker 9: Totally ruined. 00:29:48 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:29:48 Speaker 9: And that's going to happen. It's happening already here. 00:29:51 Speaker 1: Well, there is a twist. There is a twist, Heather. One of these gentlemen is fighting back. At least one. At least one. So let me just give the update for the audience, okay? So Matthew Ingalls is one of these frat boys that has been accused. And I think he was basically the main one that she was interested in. I think he's male one. Male one or male two. He is accusing Jane Doe of raping him. He is citing that he was too intoxicated to give consent. Ingalls reportedly told Cornell investigators that he was too intoxicated from alcohol and ketamine. to give consent. Quote, during Cornell's investigation, Ingalls said he was too intoxicated to consent and suggested that Jane Doe actually assaulted him, according to school records. This is per ABC News. I actually think this is great, and I'll explain why. Because the whole my body, my choice thing, it's funny how that works, okay? So she chose to do drugs and alcohol. She chose to snort ketamine. She chose to partake in multiple threesomes, but yet, so she has all her body, her choice, but yet it is made to be believed, if you look at the protesters and all this stuff, that it's the seven dudes from Cornell and the frat house that took away her choice. Make it make sense. 00:31:09 Speaker 9: This is the complete double standard that we're supposed to banish traditional sexual mores that are actually the only thing that is going to prevent more of these drunken bacchanals. which is sexual modesty, even, God forbid, chastity, and male chivalry. And we're supposed to believe that that's all oppressive and patriarchal and that men and women, males and females, are absolutely equal on the sexual battleground field and that the female libido is just as active, just as voracious, omnivorous as the male libido, all of which is completely untrue. so the females are strong women together, and yet it turns out the way these campus rape narratives work is that it is still completely on the male's responsibility. He may be drunk, she may be drunk, but in traditional terms, and this is what the Ingalls suit is pushing back against, the male is responsible both for himself and for the female. She's viewed as a helpless victim, somebody without any agency. Now, I'd be willing to sign on to that idea. You know, I'm not a big fan of strong women together. I think there are very real psychological and physical and frankly, cognitive differences between males and females. So let's go back to that because it would actually restore thousand millennia long understandings about the complexity of the challenge, the difficulty, the mystery of sexual interaction. But if we're not going to go back to that, then this double standard that exonerates females and makes males their protectors is a complete hypocritical violation of the feminist norm. So, you know, this is, it's a narrative that is unfalsifiable. We're told Blake and Andrew, that we're supposed to believe survivors, but only when they're claiming their victimhood. If they say they're not victims, then you just chalk that up, as I say, to the rape culture and they're being brainwashed into thinking that they're not victims. 00:33:36 Speaker 1: I completely agree. And I want to make sure we get through the facts because this is why I say there's no white hats here. There's no heroes. Everybody acted poorly. And It's terrible to see, but here's the facts. Jane Doe admitted to her sorority big sister that she was acting, the rumors of her acting like a, she used the word, slut, were unfortunately true. She texted one of the men she eventually accused of gang rape that none of the sexual stuff was illegal, and honestly, I really like being with you and Matt. 00:34:10 Speaker 10: Okay. 00:34:10 Speaker 1: Okay. Ten days later, she was so excited to go back to the same frat house where she was allegedly assaulted for the Halloween party that, heart, I'll bring my cigs tomorrow. Okay, that's pretty weird. And then she only decides after she gets disinvited by the president of that frat, so I guess it happened October 19th, the alleged incident, and then on November 3rd, she changed her story to, I was raped. 00:34:40 Speaker 5: I love the way the New York Times... By November 3rd, she appears to have concluded she was assaulted. 00:34:45 Speaker 1: She finally got to the point. And now, I understand. Sometimes things happen. There's a processing that happens there. But it doesn't... And I think this is the point where you can really help us here, Heather. It feels like, based on the facts, she regretted this sexual orgy thing that she did. And then she... In order to save face, in order to help her reputation, she changed her story. And she's going to ruin seven boys' lives as a result. 00:35:16 Speaker 5: I think a big picture, though, that we want to drive home is if she successfully pulls this off, if this leads to criminal charges, if this leads to changes in law, if this brings back the old Biden-Obama era, Title IX policies. Heather, two minutes here. You should lay out. What are we bringing back if we allow this story to grow out of control with the narrative they're trying to sell us? 00:35:38 Speaker 9: Well, you know, if males had any sense, they would start acting sensibly themselves because they are going to be facing and probably still are a complete miscarriage, a perversion of justice. We're going to go back to these awful tribunals where the male is not allowed to confront his accuser. He's not allowed cross-examination. He may not even be told of the charges against him. This is throwing aside hundreds of years of one of the greatest accomplishments of Western civilization, which is due process of law. So males are going to be under constant threat of having their future lives destroyed. Here's what they should do if they had any sense. Don't get involved with a girl who's drunk. And when you're drunk as well, walk her home after a date, kiss her goodnight, give her some flowers and walk away. The same applies to females. This is why this is so ludicrous. If the Title IX rape administrators really believe that what was going on on campuses is rape and not, as you say, Blake, simply regretted sex, regretted hookup sex, drunken hookup sex, where the female afterwards think, gee, he doesn't appear as moved by this as I am. You know, I'm going to play the rape card. If the Title IX administrators believed that females were operating in this tsunami of sexual violence, they would tell the females, do not get drunk, get in bed with a guy who you may or may not know very well, and take off your clothes. Instead, dance with the guy and go home, go to your bed at night. That would end this epidemic overnight. There would be not a single rape left because this is drunken, regretted hookup sex, as you say. And the fact is, if it is going on and females are so stupid to walk into it anyway, they don't believe they shouldn't be on college campus. 00:37:45 Speaker 1: Heather MacDonald, the great Heather MacDonald. They all need Jesus. That's the takeaway here. Thank you so much, Heather. 00:37:51 Speaker 9: Thanks, Andrew. 00:37:55 Speaker 1: I talk about jobs and industries on this show all the time, but I didn't expect to find an entire skills trade community on TikTok. Plumbers, electrician, builders, and contractors sharing the work they do every day. And it went way beyond tips and tricks. People were sharing their craft, connecting with local contractors, and talking about how they were building their businesses and growing their teams. It opened my eyes. to how people in the trades are using TikTok to share their skills, make connections, and find new opportunities. I remember thinking, this is exactly what we need more of, people sharing what they know and creating opportunities for others. And I never expected to find a community like this that's the thing about TikTok. You start with something you know, and suddenly you're finding a whole new side of it that surprises you and leaves you wanting to know more. Your next discovery is waiting for you on TikTok. Learn more at TikTok.com slash discover more. We are going to be talking. This is an idea that we've floated, but we haven't been able to connect all the dots. But there is definitely correlation. The question is, is there causation? And what we're talking about is USAID. It's been defunded, deconstructed. It was one of the great accomplishments of the early Trump 2.0. And then the funny thing started happening. All throughout South America, right wing leaders were getting elected in places that you wouldn't expect. And we covered this yesterday. Here to unpack this and to see if there is causation is Mike Benz, one of the guys that is the best at connecting the dots and best at following the money trails. Mike, welcome back to the show, my friend. you have called what you've called Brazil, the Truman show, uh, because it was basically Astro turfed in so many ways, a lot of funding that you have tracked down. Tell us what you mean when it comes to Brazil and USA ID. 00:39:44 Speaker 10: In 2018, when Bolsonaro, uh, swung into office in October of that year. There was a massive effort to basically stop his ability to govern and then to ultimately fund his ouster in the form of Lula and the Workers' Party that stretched for the first two years of the Trump administration and then the first two years of the Biden administration and is really a clean example of the foreign policy establishment not only being able to use a government agency to hijack U.S. foreign policy, but to do it behind the president's back because the way USAID is structured allows it to be even more flexible, deniable, and less oversight than even the Central Intelligence Agency. So if you want to get rid of a president in a foreign country, USAID is usually the best way, and I can walk through all the ways. 00:40:42 Speaker 1: That was done in Brazil. Yeah. And I mean, I think that's, we, it's almost like a black budget, right? You hear about this with Intel agencies, USAID had these sort of ambiguous titles for it. Oh, we're, we're helping civil society, civil society, like lay out for us like that. Like when they say we're funding civil society efforts in Brazil, how does that translate to a politically legible outcome we could recognize here? 00:41:07 Speaker 6: Yeah. 00:41:08 Speaker 10: I want to first address, uh, what you just said about the, um, opaqueness of it and then all hit the civil society front. There's something that's really important, I think, for people to understand about the technical difference between the intelligence community and USAID because it's something that is kind of a very nefarious underpinning of how USAID was able to get away with this. When the Central Intelligence Agency started getting in trouble in the 1960s and 70s and went through a number of reforms to its processes and practices, it something called a presidential finding became required, which meant that every single covert action that the CIA does has to be approved in writing by the president of the United States. That way there's no miscommunication about the president not authorizing a CIA covert action. USAID does not have that constraint on it. So if USAID wants to do the equivalent of a CIA covert action but not tell the president about it, they can do that. And that's what really distinguishes them both from state and CIA. So they were really able to go behind President Trump's back when it came to the situation in Brazil for the first two years of Bolsonaro's term and then went haywire during the Biden era. But on the civil society front, civil society is a kind of play, if you will. 00:42:40 Speaker 8: It preys on. 00:42:41 Speaker 10: Obviously the word civil, but really what's distinct from is governmental. So just in the same way that you have sort of criminal and civil court and criminal and civil procedure, when you're dealing with NGOs, when you're dealing with non-governmental organizations that sweep across all the different layers of a society, they call that civil society to distinguish it from the public sector and to distinguish it from for-profit companies. In every USAID operation, there's something that they refer to as a kind of whole of, well, they call it the whole of society framework, which is about mobilizing government actors, for-profit private sector actors, non-profit civil society actors. 00:43:27 Speaker 1: And media. 00:43:28 Speaker 10: And media can either be for-profit or civil society, depending on whether it's a for-profit or non-profit. And so you get all four of those categories of institutions together, and you have virtually every institution in in society. And that is a standard part of the playbook. And I can walk through if you'd like more detail about how that civil society, how that whole of society apparatus was mobilized to capture civil society in Brazil. 00:43:56 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and I do want to get into those details. So you're basically saying after Bolsonaro was elected, USAID mobilized through Brazilian civil society, pumping money and strategy. I mean, are American officials... Are they flying down to Brazil, orchestrating this, architecting this? Is it that direct, saying, hey, we're going to get the left wing back in power and here's how we're going to do it? 00:44:21 Speaker 10: Well, it depends on what year you're talking about, I suppose. For 2018, 2019, 2020, during the Trump years, this was done through USAID funding, the National Endowment for Democracy, the Wilson Center, the Atlantic Council, the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and... a raft of something called the Consortium for Elections and Political Process Strengthening, SEPs, which are three of those that I just named are giant umbrella NGOs that themselves fund 20 to 30 sub-NGOs underneath them. For example, in Brazil, the SEPs network, I think, stretched to about 50 disinformation-related NGOs themselves. The TSE court, the Alexandre de Moraes court, I believe four of the nine flaggers on the court that had a inside WhatsApp line directly to Marias were funded by USAID. The concept to form a task force on disinformation out of the TSE, the Alessandra de Marias court, was basically invented by USAID grantees who ended up making up I think like something between 40 and 50 percent of the initial task force members. They became USAID was funding the all the different NGOs that that trained and staffed and flagged all of the disinformation online. And then I literally testified in front of the Brazilian Senate Foreign Relations Committee and showed pictures from the USAID grantee websites of them training Alessandro de Moraes. on disinformation. They actually sent, some of their delegates included the same people they used to censor the 2020 election in the United States, including the Stanford Internet Observatory, the Atlantic Council Digital Forensics Research Lab, who were all sent down there and made basically members of the court task force. You had insane situations where USAID was getting feedback from its grantees about how it was training the judges, and USAID... I'm trying to think about what I'm at liberty to say. There are documents that you can FOIA that would show how USAID would instruct its grantees to actually remove the USAID logo and change its guidance to the TSE court to remove references to Bolsonaro in its targeting of censorship because they were afraid that these USAID grantee directives would leak and it would show how politicized and how top-down it was from the U.S. government. 00:47:17 Speaker 1: That sounds damning right there. I think it's safe to say, Mike, you are the best there is around at connecting dots that nobody else is connecting. 00:47:26 Speaker 5: It's crazy what you found, the way you've dissected the British censorship apparatus especially. I was so impressed by when you You were laying out, oh, this is how the UK government actually funds these orgs. And then they lobby to censor people in the US. And you get that transatlantic traffic, so to speak, where that's how they control speech. 00:47:44 Speaker 1: They go to Britain when they can't do it in America. They go to America when they can't do it in Britain. Well, and fundamentally, I feel different about the transatlantic thing than I do about the Western Hemisphere thing. Because this is our hemisphere. That's how I look at it. And I'm a non-interventionist guy. But this is why what I think Marco is doing throughout Latin America is really, really important. But what you're saying is that there was a concerted effort right at the break, you said this, to remove USAID markers, to remove mentions of Bolsonaro because they knew what they were doing was blatantly, brazenly political and biased. 00:48:19 Speaker 9: Yes. 00:48:20 Speaker 1: Explain that. 00:48:22 Speaker 10: Well, USAID is... Technically, everything it does moves through 501c3 charity-type organizations, NGOs. It's barred from being able to provide support to certain other types. It can give grants to certain private companies, but it's supposed to be apolitical. It's by charter supposed to be foreign assistance. 00:48:45 Speaker 1: And it's not. Right. 00:48:47 Speaker 10: I mean, it's laughable. It reminds me of a sort of Acme cartoon where I don't know if someone gives Wile E. Coyote a present and there's a bomb inside or that sort of thing. I mean, even John Bolton's parting gift from USAID when he was the policy and budget director in the 1980s was a USAID hand grenade. If you recall, he held that up on Piers Morgan. It was a hand grenade from USAID with his name engraved. And I think that's just a very apt way to understand USAID. the agency's operations in disguise. But in Brazil, what you had was, now again, Brazil is the second largest sort of, you know, Andrew, what you were saying about the importance of the Western Hemisphere and various regions within it. Brazil is the second largest population in Western Hemisphere. It's the second largest military. It has some of the world's largest reserves of water, of minerals. It sits on the Amazon, the lungs. 00:49:48 Speaker 1: Of the world. 00:49:49 Speaker 10: It has a huge amount of hydrocarbons. It's the, I think, world's largest producer of beef and other food products. And what it does in terms of its trade has a significant impact both on the U.S. and on U.S. businesses. And financial firms in terms of, uh, their investments, because there is just a lot of money to swing around that hangs in the balance. And, you know, famously Lula has transitioned his economy in, in significant part to the Chinese rather than to the Americans. Uh, but I think given the overlap between sort of the Chinese diplomatic and financial sphere and, and many of the folks around the Biden foreign policy and national security world, uh, there's a weird natural synergy there in terms of what happened, but in terms of, so, I mean, obviously the U S has been involved in Brazil since the, at least the 1960s when there was the sort of military coup that the U S played a fairly significant role in. But what we've seen over the past decade is a kind of reversal of the cold war where instead of having, you know, sort of right wing regime changes of left wing, uh, left-wing administrations for oil, you have a kind of reverse where you have left-wing regime changes of right-wing, uh, right-wing governments for like clean energy. 00:51:22 Speaker 1: It's like for the opposite of oil. 00:51:25 Speaker 5: Mike, just because we only have a couple of minutes here at first. So of course we did dismail to USAID. That's what's led to the speculation. We've been able to uncork a right-wing revolution, as it were, throughout Latin America. Is there anything additional that the Trump administration should be doing to make sure this doesn't come back if we get another Democrat government, or just to remove remaining pieces of this apparatus where they might exist in the DC blob or around the world? And then finally, after answering that, if you have a second, do we have to watch out for anything in Brazil? It looks like odds are very good the runoff will go Bolsonaro's way, but are there are there tricks that the Lula regime might use to do something a little sinister and shady? 00:52:10 Speaker 10: First, I think on your first question, I think naming and shaming and putting things on a jumbotron actually has a very powerful chilling effect, even without the permanence of legislation, even without an executive order or, I don't know, some compelling lawsuit outcome that legally bars that from happening again. When people see their predecessors getting dunked on and posterized. They don't want to be that next person when they go into government and be kind of the next person in line as soon as another four years goes by to be dunked on. And I do think that having transparency around the USAID files, being able to publish them publicly is of absolutely critical importance. 00:52:58 Speaker 1: And in Are you working on that, Mike? 00:53:02 Speaker 10: I am, and I'm trying to– I don't know what I'm at liberty to say around this, but it is– it has to come out. This can't be– Yeah. That is my primary focus right now, and I hope the administration can understand the importance of– making this public rather than something that has to be like foiled six weeks from now. 00:53:37 Speaker 1: Do you think that deconstructing USAID is one of the chief accomplishments of the Trump 2.0 administration? 00:53:44 Speaker 8: Absolutely. 00:53:45 Speaker 10: And a huge part of that, which kind of gets to the second part of Blake's question, is it connects to everything else. USAID did not act as an island It coordinated with the State Department. It coordinated with the National Security Council. It coordinated with the Department of War. It coordinated with the European Commission. It coordinated with NATO and the Brits and the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the like. It was a shadow diplomacy element. And so removing that doesn't just get rid of the agency itself. It gets rid of a lot of touch points into a lot of rogue, completely independent institutions. actors on U.S. national security and foreign policy. But what I would say is the one thing that does concern me is if you take away that such a powerful soft power element, the compulsion to replace that with hard power through having the military do what used to be done, having the military do ham-fistedly what used to be done relatively slickly by USAID and has its own set of drawbacks. 00:54:56 Speaker 1: Do you think, and that makes perfect sense, we've got 20 seconds here, are you concerned about the runoff on October 25th in Brazil? 00:55:04 Speaker 10: I have concerns. The TSE court has a tremendous amount of power. They could, in theory, do what was done in Romania and what was threatened to be done in Germany, where they could technically find some reason to try to annul or to try to Mass ban everything. But I think at this point, the diplomatic pressure would be extremely intense. And it may be better to go gracefully. 00:55:28 Speaker 1: Mike Benz, executive director, Foundation for Freedom Online. Thank you, my friend. Very, very excellent reporting. If you're looking at your investment portfolio and feeling pretty smart right now, remember, a bull market can make anyone look like a genius. If you've had a good run, the question is whether you keep it. The people who act early do it from a position of strength. The ones who wait act out of fear. There's nothing worse than turning a great trade into a break-even because you didn't act in time. Taking chips off the table isn't quitting. It's protecting what you've earned. Visit noblegoldinvestments.com slash kirk and find out whether helping to protect your profits with gold makes sense for you. And to celebrate America's 250th, open a new qualified account and Noble Gold will send you a free 10-ounce silver bar. noblegoldinvestments.com slash kirk. The information is free, but the knowledge is priceless. 00:56:25 Speaker 11: We know what we know, obviously, about whatever the Russians have provided, which is it seems that there. 00:56:29 Speaker 5: Was a worker at the lab that was infected. 00:56:33 Speaker 11: And there's concern that that could have spread, at least internally. So you've seen them do quarantines and that nature. There's very limited travel between the US and Russia, obviously. But like anything else, something like that gets out and can quickly spread. So we're watching and monitoring it closely. I don't think it's cause for alarm, but it is cause for focus and a cause to just keep an eye on it. 00:56:55 Speaker 3: And we're doing that. 00:56:56 Speaker 1: Yeah. So a lot of you have probably heard about this plague outbreak. Well, we got to figure out how bad it is, how concerned we should be out of Russia. But if you were like me. Are we going to have another plague? You're literally having PTSD. You're getting like a twitch. Mysterious disease. COVID all over again. Hostile country. Lab outbreak by, yeah, tyrannical dictatorship. Is this what we're up against? So back on the show, frankly, it's been too long, is a dear friend of the show, a dear friend of Charlie's, and that's Dr. Robert Malone. We're honored to have him back. Dr. Malone, welcome. So good to see you. You have been riding up a storm on this. I knew that you were the exact right person to... to give our audience the actual truth, not the clickbait, not to give any of that. We want to know what this is. And you hear plague, and you get goosebumps. You're wondering, how bad is this going to be? So the floor is yours, sir. Tell us everything you know. 00:57:53 Speaker 8: Well, let's talk about the fear. And this is existential fear that's being promoted by people. It has to do with the modern media ecosystem. And fear sells. There's no question about it. So let's talk about plague in general. It is notorious for the deaths, black death in the Middle Ages, but that's bubonic plague. It's spread by fleas. Pneumonic plague is actually not that infectious, which is perhaps what this young 28-year-old suffered from, laboratory technician. And So this is really not, even Mr. Rubio overstated a bit, this is not a big worry for rapid spread. What this institute is, is a facility that is involved in an extensive Russian surveillance network for Yersinia pestis or plague in general. And its primary focus is on Mongolia. It has nothing to do with the Ukrainian border. And it does turn out that there was just a series of isolations of plague in Mongolia through August. So those isolates where there's been an outbreak in marmots, among other things, in a couple of cases of bubonic plague where people have been infected by fleas. So they went They did isolation and monitoring. They came back with strains. Those were processed. This laboratory where Daria Shipilova worked as a laboratory technician was the one, and laboratory technicians specifically working on plague, was the one that would then process the samples from the primary isolates in Mongolia. So that's the context. And I'll tell you just the punchline right now All of my analysis, deep dive, applied artificial intelligence algorithms, et cetera, et cetera, all says that this is just a single person event. There was 200 primary contacts, so first point of contact, because she was in hospitals for four days. And all of those have been isolated, and they're now at the end of the period of, typical incubation for pneumonic plague, and there is no new cases that have been announced. There has been some quarantine activity in five hospitals in the region, presumably because the people she would have been in contact with would have been hospital workers, and that makes sense. Everything I'm seeing is appropriate infectious disease control protocol applied in an area that has significant expertise and some history with plague because of the endemic plague that's present within Mongolia. And what's odd here is a few other, a few things having to do with the communications and the statements made that they're sure that the Institute has investigated itself and it's sure that there was no breach of protocol and that she did not get infected. by anything she was working with in the Institute. But they're not revealing any PCR results. They're not revealing any sequence results. So the things that would allow the outside world to cross-check this story are not available. And that's typical in these kinds of situations is there is some degree of cover-up by the folks that are closest to the event because they don't want to take ownership. You know, this is an authoritarian environment. And if you're in charge of that institute and this happened under your watch and it's a black guy to the republic, there's probably going to be career consequences. So the default action always in this kind of situation is to. 01:02:10 Speaker 1: Deny, deny, deny. 01:02:11 Speaker 8: And that happens here in the United States, too. How long have we been talking about, let's say, Ralph Baric's lab? So I think we can't we can't cast stones in this one. 01:02:22 Speaker 6: So. 01:02:23 Speaker 5: You do mention they're not having ideal communications. Even if you're pretty confident this is not a reason for us to panic yet, is there any justification for this to be something we should worry about? So pneumonic plague, it is significantly more fatal than bubonic plague. It can spread person to person through respiratory droplets, even if it has a hard time doing so. Is this something we should worry that a state actor, Russia, China, Iran, any random country, might be working on to make it as a bioweapon, something that we should look out for? 01:02:59 Speaker 8: So there is a long history that extends to World War II. It really beat before that, but it was attempted to be weaponized and it was deployed, a plague, as a weapon by the Japanese forces. I think it was in China that they did it. So every major nation that was involved in bio-warfare development historically has had a plague program. Most of them have also developed plague vaccine candidates, and that includes the US and the UK. I don't know anything about Israel. Israel has not signed the bio-warfare treaty. Russia has. So that treaty has virtually no teeth. There's no way that the UN or the group that I'm affiliated with can march in there to that part of Siberia. That's probably a good thing for me. And go do their own investigations. They have to rely on Russia to share information. And all they can do, all the Secretary of State can do is to ask nicely that they share information. But should you be worried? The only reason you would be worried is if you happen to be in that particular 600-person town and you were somebody that knew this unfortunate young woman, and she had coughed directly on you. That would be about where you would have to have some concern. 01:04:23 Speaker 1: So, Dr. Malone, it looks like there was a bunch of technicians or scientists that were quarantined in a lab. There's also a rumor of a broken tube, a test tube of some sort, but I'm getting conflicting reports. Have you been able to confirm that? 01:04:41 Speaker 8: No, that's a single report from basically a local freelance news site that kind of broke the story and broke the story on X. And so that was part of their narrative that's been contradicted. The laboratory has said that whatever she died of, it had nothing to do with anything she was working with. 01:05:11 Speaker 1: Et cetera, et cetera. 01:05:13 Speaker 8: One, there's two, as far as I'm concerned, viable hypotheses going here. One is that she was processing some new isolate that was particularly pathogenic and she didn't have good laboratory hygiene for a BSL-3 laboratory. Okay. Or something happened. The other is that she had been traveling and she might have traveled into regions where plague is endemic, but that wouldn't explain pneumonic plague. So I think we're pretty tight down on something happened in the laboratory. The laboratory probably knows about it. And by the way, most of those quarantines were not from the laboratory. They were from the hospitals because she was out into the community for four days without a diagnosis until she died. So that means that she was in contact with a lot of hospital people, not so much her laboratory colleagues. 01:06:07 Speaker 1: Dr. Malone, when you say that if she was out in let's say she made contact with some marmot, right? You're saying that couldn't have been the cause of this? 01:06:18 Speaker 8: Because typically what that would have led to is getting infected by fleas. That's the pattern in that region. And that results in bubonic plague, not pneumonic plague. So what we do know in terms of her proximity to plague is that there was this September plague campaign to identify new isolates from Mongolia in the region where it's now emerged because of marmots crossing over a mountain range. And, uh, those samples would have gone to a, uh, another laboratory and then been isolated, processed and passed off. And she is reasonably likely to be the one that would receive those samples. So it could be that she experienced, uh, contact in some way with a primary sample out of Mongolia that might have been more pathogenic. That is a pure speculation hypothesis, but it fits all the investigations. And we have had to dive deeply into Russian literature, thank heavens for Russian translation programs, in order to get to this. We've been through many, you know, the scientific literature there, the publications from this institute, et cetera, to put together this story. 01:07:39 Speaker 1: So just to kind of make sure I'm summarizing and hearing you right, this is in a region with a lot of plague, right? This laboratory exists. 01:07:48 Speaker 8: In animals. 01:07:49 Speaker 1: In animals. But it's... Yeah, so this laboratory exists to essentially research the new isolates, as you call them, new variants of plague that may be existing within the animal population. They were working on this. This laboratory tech was a plague tech technician. 01:08:07 Speaker 10: Yeah. 01:08:08 Speaker 1: She gets... She gets it. By the way, pneumonic plague, apparently the death rate is like 71%. 71%. 01:08:15 Speaker 5: Apparently 100% if you don't get antibiotics in 24 hours. 01:08:19 Speaker 1: The United States, we get less than seven cases a year, mostly bubonic plague, and less than 8% is pneumonic plague, and no documented person-to-person spread since 1924. So there's a lot of, this does not feel like, coronavirus but there is a lot of there is a lot of uh secrecy and it you know you you hear you think of chernobyl you think of the way that russia dealt with that. 01:08:45 Speaker 8: I i would i would rather the secrecy i think the you know the usual the easiest explanation is incompetence uh versus conspiracy and i think we've got a lot of incompetence in messaging right now. 01:08:58 Speaker 1: The model that I think we're all afraid of, Dr. Malone, is the Chernobyl incident. Already the memes online, it's like, you know, you see Putin going, we've got it all under control, everybody. It's fine. Nothing to see here. Meanwhile, Chernobyl's melting down. And that is the model of the Russian state, right? That they keep things very, tight-lipped, under wraps. Things could be spiraling out of control, and they won't. 01:09:22 Speaker 8: Be honest about it. 01:09:22 Speaker 1: And in Russia, they often do. Yeah, and in Russia, they often do spiral out of control. 01:09:27 Speaker 8: It is the totalitarian. I mean, there's a fundamental lesson here. Anytime you have central control in planning, and you still have centralized control in planning in modern Russia, even though it's not former Soviet Russia, anytime you have that, you have a huge gap between what is the ground truth And what is the official narrative? Because it's got to filter up through multiple places and everybody that's touching that information has a stake in it and they don't want to look bad. And so by the time it gets up to officialdom in Moscow and, and, uh, and the, uh, official public health agency, I think it's Ross Pordo, not bizarre or something like that. I can't pronounce it. Uh, it's been highly filtered and it really doesn't reflect what's actually known at the ground level, which is what that initial report was, was from a local reporting ground truth, such as, for instance, that apparently the physicians in the area are all abuzz about plague. So the official party line is this was not plague. It was not a laboratory accident. It had nothing to do with anything that she was working with. And I think that we're going to see that become a modified limited hangout, and we're going to see it updated gradually over the next few weeks. 01:10:49 Speaker 1: Well, so you talk about at the beginning of this interview how fear sells, right? I think there's no greater sinner in this regard than CNN. Blake has a colorful license plate. 01:11:01 Speaker 8: It's their business model. 01:11:02 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you remember when that plane disappeared? The Malaysia plane. 01:11:06 Speaker 9: Yeah. 01:11:06 Speaker 1: And they covered this for like six months, like one story every day, like the mysterious. I mean, anyway, so that so this is I'm going to play a clip from CNN. I apologize to the audience in advance, but I want you to respond to it because they're saying the facts just don't really add up. You seem to be countering that. Let's just go ahead and play it. Stop 14. 01:11:26 Speaker 5: Russia so far is saying this is contained. 01:11:28 Speaker 2: How can the United States actually verify that? 01:11:33 Speaker 9: So the U.S. 01:11:33 Speaker 7: Would be using intelligence assets available to them and obviously trying to work with the Russian government because, you're right, things don't make sense. But it's the Russians' constant way of managing these things that causes more problems than anything else. Well, the Kremlin's saying don't give in to speculation. The vile theory, for example, if this is a worker trained to handle plague, the bacteria the doctor just mentioned, and it broke, they would have known to immediately been decontamination, go into isolation. It would have prophylactically been given these antibiotics. and wouldn't have stumbled in the hospital for four days later, at least that's sort of what's coming out now or something along those timelines. So the facts just don't really add up right now. And that's the problem is there's more answers or there's more questions than there are answers. 01:12:09 Speaker 1: All right. So there's more questions than there are answers. Do you feel like you've got the answers now, Dr. Malone? 01:12:15 Speaker 8: So that's, that's a great example of substituting opinion for facts. 01:12:21 Speaker 6: Okay. 01:12:21 Speaker 8: And the facts are actually available. So, so what, what you basically had there, was an acknowledgement that CNN is not actually doing journalism because they could have done the same work that we did. And it's just myself and my wife working here out of Madison, Virginia, publishing stuff and running our algorithms. So CNN, what can I say? They should up their game, but there's no reason to because fear sells and these kinds of insinuations seem to be their stock in trade as well as for many of the other mainstream media. I'm calling these people media entrepreneurs. They're basically selling clicks, likes, and follows in whatever way they can. And I think we should probably, being a Christian broadcast, we should try to extend empathy to these poor souls. They're trapped in this ecosystem. 01:13:19 Speaker 1: Blake, do you feel like you've got empathy for CNN? Are you there yet? No, no. 01:13:26 Speaker 8: I'm a little pressed, too. But, you know, we do we do need to be Christian about this as much as possible. 01:13:32 Speaker 1: Well, so I mean, but that I think that was important, though, to play, because that that does sort of outline how this has been covered and why a lot of us are like, oh, is this covid 2.0? Is this a Chernobyl like incident in Russia? I feel satisfied that It's not COVID. It's not coronavirus. It doesn't spread nearly as easily. We haven't had a documented case since 1924. But that is the important piece. Now, it seems like this worker, the test tube, even just from that clip, this test tube theory, did a vial break in the lab. That seems to indicate it probably didn't, right? Because to his point, if it would have broken in the lab, she would have been treated prophylactically. in advance with these antibodies, and she wasn't. She stumbled into a hospital four days later. Does that follow with your. 01:14:23 Speaker 8: I agree, but that doesn't mean there wasn't some breach. And so the official party line is there wasn't, that everything was followed appropriately, but the Wuhan Institute of Virology insisted that they had fully followed protocol also, and there wasn't any chance that it was a lab leak. So So this is always what happens. The default response of an institute, by the way, that in this case investigated itself, is going to be to say, no, no, no, we didn't do anything wrong. And whether it was some small aerosol, that doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense that she would breathe an aerosol because she should have been, anything that she did should have been operated within a biosafety cabinet. 01:15:13 Speaker 1: So Dr. Malone, we have, yeah, we have nine, 90 seconds here. So it's going to be quick, but you know, pneumonia can kill it within 24 hours. So we're saying four days later, actually, what is the inciting incident? And you know, does that lead you to believe maybe she got sick outside of the lab four days? 01:15:33 Speaker 8: That's the other hypothesis. And if it was a natural infection, it probably would have been bubonic plague. So, and we still don't know for sure that this was Yersinia pestis. It could be some other respiratory virus or pathogen. That's what the official party line is, is this is not plague, even though everybody there is saying plague. So the way to solve this is with PCR, which they have, they have advanced capabilities. I've documented those advanced capabilities. And yet they haven't said diddly squat about PCR. So that's kind of strange. And there are absolutely gaps in the story. CNN is right about that. But I think the gaps are most easily explained as the usual kind of incompetence in messaging and failure of transparency, which, once again, I don't think we're in any position to cast stones on that. 01:16:32 Speaker 1: Front, honestly. Fair enough. Dr. Robert Malone, thank you so much for this just, I think, sage wisdom that you've delivered here. God bless you. Thank you for coming back on the show. It's great to see you. 01:16:44 Speaker 8: Thank you, sir. Keep calm and carry on. 01:16:47 Speaker 1: You as well. For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.