The Legacy of Lindsey Graham + Who Is Alexander Dugin?

00:00:03 Speaker 1: My name is Charlie kirk I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. 00:00:11 Speaker 2: My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. 00:00:14 Speaker 1: If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start at turning point. You would say college chapter. Go start aturning point, yould say high school chapter. 00:00:35 Speaker 3: Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. 00:00:39 Speaker 1: I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade, most important decision I ever made in my life, and I encourage you to do the same. 00:00:45 Speaker 3: Here I am. 00:00:46 Speaker 2: Lord, Use me. 00:00:48 Speaker 1: Buckle up, everybody, Here we go. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirkshaw, a company that specializes in gold I rays and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegold investments dot Com. That is Noblegoldinvestments dot Com. 00:01:17 Speaker 4: All right, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. I'm Andrew Colvid. I'm in our Nation's lovely capital, and Blake is holding it down in the y REFI Studios and Phoenix, Arizona. 00:01:28 Speaker 3: How we doing. 00:01:28 Speaker 5: Mike's mine? The mic flag is mine once again. 00:01:32 Speaker 4: You know it's eventually Daisy's going to figure this out and we're all gonna be able to share multiple mic flags. Until then, Blake's holding it down in the y REF Studios. We had an amazing weekend in DC, and what a blessing it was to Blake because obviously the week was super challenging. All you and I did was basically watch the preliminary hearing we posted about on social we covered it during this show, or we watched it live on this show, and then we covered it at night. So thank you so much to all of you who tuned into that. Those episodes did monster numbers, so I know a lot of you were interested in hearing about it and bringing in Graham Allen and Brandon Tatum and Jack Pasobic and all those who were in the courtroom, along with all the experts that we brought in to help break it all down. So in all, it was a really tough week. And you know, Erica had you know, we had planned CLS Chapter Leadership summit in DC a long long time ago, and then the judge postponed the preliminary hearing. Was originally supposed to be in April, and it was in May, and then it got moved to this front part of July. So it just fell right in the middle of it. And actually I said this to some people, Blake, it ended up being I feel like providential timing because it gave us an opportunity and gave Erica an opportunity to go from what was a really challenging, emotional week watching and reliving those details from that terrible day, to then going to be around thousands of students in Washington, d C. Getting too experience firsthand what turning point is building all across the country chapter by chapter and then getting to meet them. And then Blake and I had the opportunity to sit down for multiple roundtables with high school students, with college students all across the country to hear directly from them. And we're Blake and I'm sure we'll get a chance to tell you more about that, but we'll be releasing that. 00:03:19 Speaker 3: Footage very soon. 00:03:21 Speaker 4: In the meantime, I want to play some of these clips because they're excellent from Erica, who just gave such an amazing, amazing speech at CLS and by the way, just made us so proud. I'm sure she made Charlie so proud. Top five. 00:03:38 Speaker 6: You do the hard thing, you do the right thing, and that's what my husband did every single. 00:03:46 Speaker 4: Day's she's just really just hitting home run after home run in this thing. 00:03:55 Speaker 3: Let's go ahead, SOT six. 00:03:57 Speaker 6: My husband built this movement. 00:04:02 Speaker 5: He built this machine. 00:04:05 Speaker 6: And I watched him do it, and I stood by his side through every sleepless night, through every moment of concern, through every phone call, through every high, through every low, of the things he could control and the things he couldn't. I was there, and I have seen my husband build this, and he has entrusted it to all of us. 00:04:32 Speaker 4: Blake any thoughts as we go through these, no, I just think it's it really speaks to everything we're aiming to do here. 00:04:40 Speaker 7: Last week we considered it incredibly important, of course to cover the hearing, make sure everyone's following that, but at the same time, the work does go on, and Charlie's work is not being We're not pursuing Charlie's work in a courtman in Utah. We're pursuing it across the country with the young people, the schoolers, the college kids, the young adults who are trying to transform this country, revitalize this country, change the change the course of this country, and bring about a faith revival. 00:05:10 Speaker 5: And you do that through the work of Turning Point USA. 00:05:13 Speaker 7: And one of the key ways we do that is through our chapters and through our events, and you put those things together and the chapter leadership something. 00:05:21 Speaker 5: It was just tremendous. 00:05:22 Speaker 7: I had a tremendous time there, not just in those panels that you and I were doing, but I when we weren't doing those, I tried to just wander around the floor and talk to the different people, and I heard so many incredible testimonies. I talked to students who said, I got baptized after what happened to Charlie. I completely transformed my life. I met person after person with testimony like that. And I think it speaks immensely to Erica that she spent that whole exhausting week in Utah and immediately turned around flew out to run and speak at this event, because that is that's what needs to get done. That's that's how the work is going to be continued in the years and we hope decades to come. 00:06:03 Speaker 3: Blake. Uh. 00:06:05 Speaker 4: One of the things I was struck by was there was a reporter there that I spoke to briefly, and his line to me was pretty profound. He said, I just love interacting with these students. They are so untouched by cynicism, They're so enthusiastic. And I'm telling you everybody in this audience that maybe is looking at the chaos on social media. 00:06:25 Speaker 3: Or what's going on in Iran or and we're going to get. 00:06:28 Speaker 4: Into, you know, Lindsey Graham, maybe even some of the conspiracies around that story, which which are were inevitable. 00:06:35 Speaker 3: Let's be honest. 00:06:36 Speaker 4: But if you get distracted or you get discouraged, if you spend some time around some Turning Point students, it will give you hope, like you wouldn't believe. It is an absolute white pill. How dedicated they are there, the way they speak about their faith, the way they speak about what Charlie meant to them, what Turning Point means to them. 00:06:56 Speaker 3: It is an absolute. 00:06:57 Speaker 4: White pill and I can't wait to get those panels out Blake, because it was really fascinating. You get inside the mind of a gen Z. And by the way, some of these high school students we talked to in that one panel, Blake, they're born in two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine. 00:07:12 Speaker 5: It was incredible. 00:07:13 Speaker 3: I remember the tail end of gen Z. 00:07:14 Speaker 7: They were, yeah, they're born They're born in two thousand and eight, so they they basically have no memory even of Barack Obama living winning an election. 00:07:22 Speaker 5: And you mentioned they're so upbeat, and that's so tremendous. 00:07:24 Speaker 7: To me because I feel that nostalgia is such a big part of magets, people who think, wow, America was winning so hard in the eighties, in the nineties, post nine to eleven went downhill. 00:07:36 Speaker 5: These are kids who never had the blessing. 00:07:38 Speaker 7: To live through it where it just felt like America was firing on all cinders and cylinders. And for them to still be so upbeat, to believe so powerfully in what this country can do and how we can revitalize that, that's tremendous. 00:07:52 Speaker 5: It's such a testament to Charlie. 00:07:54 Speaker 7: I want to make sure we play another one of these Eric eclips because I think it really speaks to the dynamic we were going for. 00:08:00 Speaker 5: Let's play clip eate. 00:08:01 Speaker 6: This past week, I have seen something I will I'm still trying to unpack and put into words. And someone asked me do you still want to go to the Chapter leadership summit? And I sat there and I thought, if you don't fight for what's right, I would much rather our country look like this room than the inside of that courtroom. 00:08:39 Speaker 5: And that got it. 00:08:39 Speaker 7: That got a huge cheer afterwards, which it was cut off there. But it really is that we want, we want this country to be all those kids in that room who believe in faith, who believe in America, who believe that whatever challenges there are, they can be overcome. 00:08:55 Speaker 5: And I just love this event. 00:08:58 Speaker 7: You see so much youthful energy, you see so much optimism. Uh I I found myself odd by the people who come out who want to pursue Charlie's legacy. 00:09:10 Speaker 5: They are they are better people than I am, I can say. 00:09:14 Speaker 4: And for those who are just wondering, no, this is not There's no adults at this event. It's just thousands of students. There's no, there's no nothing. It's just students doing training, getting together, meeting each other, getting equipped to go back out and take their chapters to the next level. And it was over two x the largest chapter leadership summit in Turning Boyt history. So lots to be grateful for today. All right, So we have we have some polling that we did there, just getting their top issues in rank order. So it's kind of a The graph is tricky, so the top is the most important, the bottom is the least important. 00:09:48 Speaker 3: Right, So they're I guess relative confidence. 00:09:51 Speaker 4: So free speech was actually young people's at cls's biggest concern, which I think was interesting simply because they're I think, being inundated with information and news stories like the UK is banning social media. 00:10:05 Speaker 3: They're being told what they can and can't look at. 00:10:09 Speaker 4: One of the things that emerged from our conversations we asked a bunch of high school kids and college kids, what do you think about, you know, banning social media for young people? And I think they were all basically against it, right, but they wanted to pursue other ways of how do you use it responsibly? How do we be taught to look at source information and things like that. But they acknowledged that there's a lot of slap and a lot of disinformation on social media, but they certainly don't want to be limited in their ability to use it. Am I addressing that correctly? 00:10:40 Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly, And yeah, just to emphasize to people, so smaller number. It was all they were asked to rank all of these issues in order, and it's sort of their average number. So free speech on average was around fourth, but rankings were all over the place, so that was enough for first place. I think it's reassuring. Number two here is right to life and abortion number two issue. I think that speaks to the type of people who are getting who it speaks to the type of people who really get invested in politics, that young people still care a lot about that issue, they still want to pursue it. And I know Charlie cared a lot about that. You care a lot, I care a lot. So I'm very glad to see that. The third issue political violence. Obviously, that's all very personal to us, and I think that's exactly what all of them were thinking about when they decided where to place that. I would say one that continues to surprise me. AI never ranks very high on this. I think when we asked people at Amfest last year, it may literally have been dead last in terms of issues people were thinking about. And here it's near dead last, ahead only ahead of only the environment and legacy media. I'm not I'm not even sure what that means. And not surprisingly, it was basically in dead last there. So I find all of those numbers. Yeah, confidence in legacy media. Uh, I guess maybe trying to rebuild confidence that might be what it means. But uh, cost of living only about about in the middle I would have been. I wouldn't have been surprised if that was higher. 00:12:10 Speaker 5: Uh. So that's what stands out to me in this one. 00:12:14 Speaker 4: That's what's something That's something that came up a lot in our conversations actually, is how much these young kids were focused on the economy, affordability, housing in conversation. They certainly seem to be fixated on it, and it's and it's it really is how much is that tank of gas going to cost me to fill up my car? 00:12:33 Speaker 6: It? 00:12:33 Speaker 4: How much did that burrito I bought at lunch cost me. That's the way that these kids are processing economics and affordability because it's it's you know, they're not necessarily investing in equities yet, they're not ready to buy a home. 00:12:46 Speaker 3: They're not thinking about this. 00:12:47 Speaker 4: And by the way, all of the kids that we spoke to, every single last one of them, are going to be voters in twenty twenty eight. Most of them will be voters in twenty twenty six, so for the midterms. So when we talk about these issues, I think it's really helpful for the larger audience to understand and bring it home for them of you know, it's literally that that's what they mentioned. A burrito should not cost twenty bucks, and they're right, a burrito shouldn't cost twenty bucks. But then you educate them on, you know, what it means to print money and to inflate the value of equities. Economic incumbents have the advantage when inflation strikes. So when you educate them on these things, they sort of pick it up and they go, yeah, you're right, you're right, Okay, that makes sense. We you know, twenty nine twenty eight percent inflation over four years with Joe Biden money printing out the wazoo during COVID, all of these things make sense to them. Once you explain it to them, but sometimes you have to explain the basics before you get to write thinking and proper thinking. 00:13:43 Speaker 7: Danny points out something pretty smart, which is cost of living was only in the middle. But he points out if they're in high school, even if they're in college, a lot of them, they still live at home. They might get subsidized by their parents. It's not quite real yet. It's when you get thrown into the pool on the deep end of adulthood that it really starts to stand out to you. And then if we were doing this event for people who were twenty seven, this might be all the way. 00:14:09 Speaker 5: Up at the top. 00:14:09 Speaker 7: As a result, I think another thing worth flagging foreign affairs. Foreign policy in general, it's in the bottom third of the list on average, ranked almost tenth place, and national security is a bit higher. But you can link that to immigration, which it's right alongside. I think something we saw repeatedly was people do want a government that's very focused on America, on American issues, on domestic stuff. A lot of them when we had those panels, they said they were willing to trust President Trump's decision making on Iran on foreign policy questions, but their ideal was still a government that is very clearly domestically focused in its orientation, and I think that this list bears that out. 00:14:54 Speaker 4: One of the things it's interesting is a lot of these kids are pretty radical on immigration, but to see it in the aggregate where it's the fact that it's not a top three issue, I think speaks to the fact that it is one of those issues when you have success with it, we close down the border and the illegal crossings that unfortunately people forget about it. It's just one of those things where if you fix a problem, it's almost hard to get credit for it because it's not in the headlines anymore. So it falls off people's top list. Now there is much more interest in when you start talking about H one b's when you start talking about job prospects, when you start talking about legal immigration, the kid's ears perk up, and there is a lot of interest in that. But I just one observation that it's not higher simply because it's not a dramatic crisis. You know, you're not seeing images of caravans crossing over the southern border anymore like we were seeing under Biden, and so it's falling down the priority list and I just hope that we can translate that electorally and make sure that President Trump gets the proper credit for it, and the Conservatives do. If you could go back in time and buy oil before the world relied on it, would you? 00:16:04 Speaker 5: Of course you would. 00:16:05 Speaker 4: Anybody would, So why aren't you buying silver right now? 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He's a great guy, great patriot, he's been a great friend, and he was in the courtroom all last week. So I want to get to that eventually. But first, Graham, you are living in South Carolina. You've run for office in South Carolina and obviously we lost. 00:17:16 Speaker 5: Lean Were you named after Lindsay Graham? 00:17:20 Speaker 8: Not to my knowledge, No, No, I think. 00:17:24 Speaker 3: You predate his political rise, maybe Graham. Yeah, so tell us the ground. Yeah, what are you hearing on the ground in South Carolina. 00:17:33 Speaker 8: Well, the President just made a post that he recommended the governor McMasters that Lindsy Graham's sister be the interim to serve out the end of their term. Look, it's pretty simple. This is going to be a three week race, the filing period of July twenty first through the twenty eighth, and then the special election or special primary election will be August eleventh. I mean that's a a three week so, I mean this is going to be Honestly, it's whoever gets the President's endorsement is who it's going to be. I've heard names float around pan evet, Ralph Norman, Nancy Mace. I've even heard former congressman, former governors things like that. Here's what I'll say, and this is a Graham Allen take. And this is one reason why me and the sc GOP don't always see I. I don't think that people that just got skull dragged in a statewide race should be given a consolation prize of a Senate seat. Senate seats do not come open often in South Carolina. I think that this is an opportunity for the president to take a moment, Susie Wiles, James Blair, all of them to take a moment. The President gets to make a decision on who to put his endorsement behind without the concern of potentially ticking off the scg OP because he's not he is not putting together a presidential campaign. This is the first time in a long time that the president has a chance to make a selection based off who he thinks the best fighter will be. As we know, we have a whole new era of Democrats socialists that are making it through their primaries right now. We've got a whole new fight going on the hill, in the House and in the Senate. I think that this is an opportunity to take just a minute, and hey, I think it needs to be somebody younger. I don't think we need to put a seventy year old person in the Senate seat. I think we need somebody that there's got to be. There's got to be somebody in the state of South Carolina that can be a fighter for the President and the American First agenda. And there's got to be somebody that can be agile and adapt to the battles that are coming very soon to DC at the House floor and in the House, in the Senate. That's my personal opinion. 00:20:00 Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I think that's I think that's right. I'm not opposed. I think Blake and I were talking before the show to his sister. You know, for those who aren't aware, his sister was often featured in campaign ads. 00:20:12 Speaker 3: He adopted. 00:20:13 Speaker 4: So I guess they grew up in the back of a of a bar, like a house on the backside of a bar or something like that in central South Carolina, and he both their parents died pretty young, and so Lindsay Graham adopted his then thirteen year old sister, and they were devoted to each other and it was actually kind of a touching story. I had a ton of political disagreements with Lindsay Graham. As a matter of fact. As soon as I got the news, I was like, man, I definitely tweeted some harsh things about Lindsey Graham in the last couple of months, and you know, I so. But whatever my disagreements were with the guy, it sounds like from people's recounting of their interactions their friendships with him, that he was amicable, that he was willing to let political disagreements not in impact his friendship towards people. By the way, I heard a crazy stat you know, the guy died with apparently a one point two million dollar net worth, Right, So this was not a guy that was enriching himself off of the war machine that he celebrated so much. Right, And so for all his faults, you know, we want to say nice things about the dead, and I don't gloat or rejoice in his passing. 00:21:25 Speaker 5: There's several funny stories. 00:21:27 Speaker 7: Al Franken, who was a colleague of his in the Senate, has has repeatedly told people Lindsey Graham is the funniest person he knew in the Senate. Apparently at one point he met him in a bathroom or something and told him, Hey, if I were a Republican, i'd vote for you in the presidential election. And he immediately replies, that's my problem. And he had a few fun stories like that. He was You can see how he was such a formidable figure for a long time, despite a lot of critics, including Charlie here. We called him Lady Graham for a reason. He often aggravated us. But he was funny, he was genial, He was a hard worker, and. 00:22:10 Speaker 5: He didn't give up. 00:22:11 Speaker 7: And we're grateful for the times where that was to the benefit of this country. We're all remembering how he fought very hard on the Brett Kavanaugh case when it was looking bad. You don't remember that it looked like that nomination might fail, and he stepped up and he absolutely destroyed those incredibly bogus allegations against Kavanaugh, fought hard for him, and had an amazing photo of him adjusting his tie while some liberal shrieked in the background. 00:22:43 Speaker 4: Yeah, so let's get into just his cause of death though, all right. President Trump admitted that he was even confused about it because he had just been in Ukraine the day before, visiting a drone factory. He was scheduled to do Meet the Press on Sunday. This is President Trump reflecting on that sought four. 00:23:01 Speaker 8: President Trump, thank you for joining us, and my condolences to you. 00:23:05 Speaker 9: Well, thank you. He's a tough one to lose. He was great, he was unique and every way. Actually, what makes it even strangers that I got a call last night sometime and you know, the early evening, maybe in the sevens, and he called and he said, we're all set for the Save America Act. He was pushing the Save America Act like crazy. He got back, said he just landed from Ukraine, bud. He wanted to pass the Save America Act. And I said, well, we're going to get it done, Lindsey, We're going to get it done. I'll see you like soon. We thought we might even meet today, and then that was it. 00:23:42 Speaker 3: So axios is reporting. 00:23:45 Speaker 4: A person who spoke with Graham shortly afterwards said that the senator complained that he was feeling unwell. When the person urged him to seek medical attention immediately, Graham said he would do it Sunday morning, after his scheduled appearance on. 00:23:56 Speaker 3: Meet the press. Graham then joked, I can't die now. 00:23:59 Speaker 4: I still need to do the Russian sanctions, get Aron sorted out, and do Israeli Saudi normalization. 00:24:04 Speaker 3: He passed away several hours later. 00:24:07 Speaker 4: The IRGC then posted a video one of their lego animation videos depicting Lindsey Graham's sudden death, sort of claiming credit for it. I tend to be persuaded that this is not conspiratorial in nature. 00:24:22 Speaker 3: He was seventy one. 00:24:23 Speaker 4: It looks like he died of hardening of the arteries, and the most common cause of death people don't know this, especially when you're over a certain age when doing long international flights, is some sort of cardiac death, whether it's a heart attack or in this case, an Arctic aortic fissure or whatever. So Blake, I see you wanting to chime in, Well, it's just yeah, it's if you look at his family history, his father died of I believe the exact same thing at the age of sixty nine. You have the story here where if he'd gone to the hospital right away, they probably would have caught that this was happening, rushed him into surgery. He might have survived, but he downplayed it, thought it's probably no big deal. And yeah, aortic dissection a order is the gigantic blood vessel running directly into your heart dissection coming apart that if that happens, you. 00:25:12 Speaker 5: Are going to die very quickly. 00:25:15 Speaker 7: And I understand it's tempting because a lot of people didn't like Senator Graham. A lot of people are grossly just celebrating his death. But in the end, it is a common thing for men in their seventies to die abruptly of heart attacks, and I think that's likely the case. 00:25:33 Speaker 3: Here, Bram. 00:25:35 Speaker 4: I want while we have you here, there was you. You were in the courtroom, and I just I know this is a brief and a kind of a pivot, but you saw the enhanced video, and much was made over the weekend on social media about this enhanced video of Tyler Robinson. I wanted to give you a chance before we lose you. I know you've got a busy day, just to chime in on that. 00:25:56 Speaker 3: What was it. 00:25:56 Speaker 4: It feels like it's a whole exercise in splitting hairs. But I wanted you get give you a chance, just to sort of set the record shap what was in that video? 00:26:03 Speaker 3: What do you see and what can you not see? One minute? 00:26:06 Speaker 8: Yeah, well, again to your point, it's semantics. There's a group of people that, no matter what the evidence is, they do not believe that the person in that video was Tyler Robinson. I, based off the evidence I've seen, do believe that the person in that video is Tyler Robinson. And in that zoomed in video, like I said, you clearly see the individual whom I believe to be Tyler Robinson get on the roof, get in the pro position. The time stamps match exactly when we know Charlie was shot. Person gets up, individual runs and jumps off the other side of the building, just like we've all seen. The zoomed in portion is the part that makes it so damning for Tyler Robinson, because you see this individual get into that prone stiper position at the exact time stamps that we know Charlie was shot. That's what I saw and what you're right, we're splitting semantics on this. There's a group that, no matter what you show, they do not believe that was Tyler Robinson. I believe all the evidence points to Tyler Robinson, and I believe that with the DNA plus the testimony, plus the confessions, all of this, and we haven't even got to his confession to the police. We haven't even got to his parents talking about it. I think it all paints a very clear picture. And yeah, I think we have a lot of people that are just arguing for the sake of arguing. 00:27:26 Speaker 4: Yeah, as well said so, I mean, the we can leave it there, Graham. But I just appreciate you being just very matter of fact, very down you know, just the facts here. 00:27:35 Speaker 3: We don't need to go further than what the facts are. 00:27:38 Speaker 4: But I think what it what it really I think what it really relates is that it we need to see this stuff. The public should have access to it, so there's no discussion, no argument or about what's actually available. 00:27:53 Speaker 3: When it comes to evidence. 00:27:54 Speaker 4: And so anyways, I'm glad that you got to see it and got to relate that to us. But Graham, I know you got a busy dam gonna let you go, But thank you for making the time calling. 00:28:02 Speaker 8: In anytime, guys, I appreciate it. 00:28:06 Speaker 4: If you're struggling with cravings, bloating, and stubborn weight gain, your gut health is probably playing a bigger role than you think A damaged microbiome can affect everything from inflammation and digestion to cravings and weight gain, and with today's process foods and environmental toxin, a lot of people's digestive health is taking a big, major hit, which is why taking care of your gut health may be more important now than ever before. That's where a fermented food called kimchi can make a real difference. Kimchi is naturally rich in over nine hundred probiotic strains that help support gut bacteria. 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All right, I just want to finish our discussion about Lindsay Graham here really quick. 00:30:08 Speaker 3: So that yeah. 00:30:09 Speaker 4: So, why it's fascinating is the IRGC put out sort of some social media with targets around people's heads, including Lindsay Graham, which obviously is you know, disconcerting. 00:30:22 Speaker 3: It included Ben Shapiro. 00:30:23 Speaker 4: I think, uh Laura Loomer, Lindsey Graham, some other people, and they're they're claiming credit for it, and I think that that is just that's just a bunch of talk. Candidly, Yeah, you see that image right there. I think that this plays into a narrative that they want to sell, and so they're they're going for it. The other thing that I want to show is Anna Casparring from the Young Turks. No, I don't really know her personally. I've met her, believe it the Republican National Convention when Charlie sat down with chenk And and Anna Kasparion, but I didn't interact with her, by the way at all. She was kind of stand office, whereas Chank was very engaging and wanted to chat. But she put out this just really nasty tweet after Graham Lindsey Graham died and said good riddance. 00:31:15 Speaker 3: Then some other people called her on it. 00:31:17 Speaker 4: Said that's a disgusting thing to do, and she doubled down on it and it got even worse. She said, let me be perfectly clear, she's really glad that this happened. I can't see it on screen, so I got to bring it up on my laptop here, but she she doubles it, doubles down, and she says, are you offended? Let me clarify, I'm elated that he's dead, overjoyed, just like he was elated at seeing countless. 00:31:40 Speaker 3: Children throughout the Middle East. 00:31:41 Speaker 4: But then she got called out on it because in November of twenty twenty, she tweeted this, what kind of monster thinks gloating about dead people is ever? 00:31:49 Speaker 3: Okay? 00:31:50 Speaker 4: I guess apologists for ethnic cleansing. So she's just a giant hypocrite. And I'm glad that the Internet called her on it, that this tweet is just I think it's of a larger societal rot. When people get on social media, they're just willing to say the craziest stuff. They're willing to be reckless, mean and cruel and vicious. And she got called on it because it's a hypocritical thing to do. And again, Blake and I will be the first to admit we have had very public political disagreements with Lindsey Graham. 00:32:19 Speaker 3: We didn't like his war positions. But don't do that. 00:32:23 Speaker 4: Don't be anachisparian, Have some dignity, have some class, Blake, I don't know if you want to comment on any of that, or if you want to sort of take us into the recent updates on Iran, Well, it does sneak. 00:32:34 Speaker 7: To It speaks to a lot, which is I think there's been an unfortunate general trend towards greater nastiness in politics, and that includes celebrating the deaths of people who politically offend you in some way. 00:32:48 Speaker 5: I think this is a bad trend. 00:32:50 Speaker 7: I think it's something we should push back against because celebrating someone's death eventually turns into justifying someone's death. 00:32:58 Speaker 5: If they were in some way. We saw that with Charlie. 00:33:02 Speaker 7: It turns into justifying other hateful actions against your political opponents, and that's just that's incompatible with the type of country we want to live in. One of the reasons America is such as a successful and amazing country and has been for so long, is we are a country where, by and large, we don't resolve our political differences with extreme hatred, with violence, with celebrating and that's something you do see in countries that are far less blessed than our own. But you did mention how Lindsey Graham might feel about war in general, and so we have recent developments in that we should pay attention to it. President Trump announced just before this show began that the Strait of Horror Moves is open and will remain open with or without Iran. But he says we are reinstating via Iran blockade. We had that blockade going for several months on Iranian ships, and he says it's been brought back. He also announces, quote, the USA will be from this point forward known as in all caps in quotes, the Guardian of the Horror Moves straight. But as such and as a matter of fairness, will be reimbursed, the President says, at a rate of twenty percent on all cargo shipped for any and all costs necessary to do the job of providing safety and security to this very volatile section of the world. The process will begin immediately. Thank you for your attention to this matter. This is interesting in a few ways. It's US returning to a more assertive position in Iran. And Andrew, I know you and I are both worried about this. We spoke to students in our panels. They repeatedly said, young people in their high schools, at their colleges, they aren't super excited about the Iran conflict. They would like for it to end, and this is I feel this is the President trying to navigate that he doesn't want boots on the ground in Iran. I think he realizes that would be deeply unpopped and deeply risky. But he's also aware these long term conflicts you need to take some sort of progress towards an end, and so he's hoping that this can up pressure on Iran's economy. He's also probably hoping this is a way he can sell this as not expensive for the United States, that this is a way People have said, why doesn't the Middle East pay more for its own defense? Why doesn't the Middle East pay more for this conflict with Iran when they're overall in the long term going to be the chief beneficiaries of it. So when President Trump announces this, I think his hope is either we can pay for the war itself, or we can put pressure on our allies in the Middle East to help us reach a permanent, long term end to this. And we just have to continue to hope that President Trump has good judgment on this, because I do think we saw that with the Chapter leaders that there is a lot of political gain to be made from finally bringing this conflict to an end, and they thought it would. 00:35:57 Speaker 5: Be a pretty immediate gain if we were able to do that. 00:36:00 Speaker 4: So, just to be clear, between China, India, Japan, and South Korea, that accounts for about seventy to seventy five percent of the of the energy that flows through the Strait of Horn moves. So I think you know Europe gets a lot of that too. So President Trump is basically saying, we'll keep it open, but Asia, you're going to be footing the bill, So fair enough. Good conversation is about respect. It's how we create a space where people are able to share their ideas and be heard. Charlie knew that turning Point still knows that, and TikTok has always strived to build the kind of place that thrives on respectful connection, where curiosity fuels connection and we can share what's on our minds and learn from each other. When ideas meet respect, good things happen. 00:36:42 Speaker 3: On TikTok. 00:36:43 Speaker 4: You can find a mechanic explaining the why behind a problem most of us wouldn't even know how to name, or a father sharing a lifetime of knowledge with his viewers. Viewers who listen discuss, and then they respond. TikTok turns connection into community through small acts of understanding. You can feel it in the comments in the thing thank you from a stranger halfway across the world. TikTok is a place where respect opens the door for discussion, and discussion helps us build something real. We have Oran McIntyre. He's a really deep thinker. He's really into philosophy. He's of course a host that the ballets check out his stuff. He's done actual interviews and debates with a man that has I think become a fascination of some on the right in larger political circles, just because he's apparently he's been described as Putin's brain. Now Putin loyalists will contest that and say that that's an overstatement, certainly, but nevertheless, he's become an important flashpoint in this Eurasian cultural block, and I think it can explain a lot for us here in America as we try to understand some of the ideas that are shaping our current moment. So Oran McIntyre, welcome back to the show. 00:37:57 Speaker 3: My friend, explain this. 00:38:01 Speaker 4: I think we should start with Alexander Dugan's most seminal work is most famous work, which is the fourth political theory. Explain in broad strokes what it is so our audience can understand the basic premise. 00:38:12 Speaker 10: Sure, So, Andrew Alexander Dukean is trying to find a way beyond liberalism. He sees us as living in a postliberal world and he wants to find a different political theory. He sees liberalism as the first political theory of modernity, and then communism and fascism as the second and third political theories that attempt to address the problems of liberalism. He rejects liberalism, but he also recognizes the shortcomings of both communism and fascism, and so he does something he calls breaking the Hermineutic circle, which is saying he wants to discard some of the worst elements of fascism or communism and see if there are any other alternative ideas that could be found inside those ideologies once we have shorn them of the worst parts of them. For him, the atheism and materialism of communism is the worst, and kind of the ethnic centering in fascism is the worst, and he's trying to find a way forward with those Now. The problem with This is a couple different things, but ultimately the thing you need to remember with all of Dugan's work is you have to read it in the frame of a man who is first and foremost centering his Eurasian project, the idea that the Russian Empire should have a natural dominance, it should be allowed to ascend, but the West is ultimately going to have to lose ground so that Russia and other countries can flourish. I think there is some real genuine philosophical insights in Dugan's work. We always have to remember that you are dealing with a propagandist as you are going through this, You can't just read it as some kind of objective assessment of where we are philosophical, right. 00:39:47 Speaker 4: So, basically the fourth political move in his estimation here, as you had communism, he rejects that, we had fascism, he rejects that, and then we had liberalism, which he acknowledges sort of on the twentieth century. And so he's saying, you know, you can't fight back against liberalism without being called a fascism, a fascist basically. But there is a fourth way, if you will, which is really just third third way positionism. Actually, but he's calling it a fourth way, which is ironic. You talk about the fact that he is a political propagandist at his heart. 00:40:23 Speaker 3: Why do you say that. 00:40:24 Speaker 10: Well, if you read the fourth political theory, Duke is not really hiding the ball. He says that the West must be destroyed, that America must be destroyed. The man has no love for Anglo civilization. He sees it as something that ultimately came to dominate the world and has driven nations like Russia into some kind of artificial second place, and that they should have flourishing once they're freed from kind of this cage of Anglo domination. So it's very clear that he's very passionate about his political project. And I think the best way to look at Dugan is perhaps to look at someone like Machiavelli. Machiavelli wrote The Prince because he was looking for a job interview, and because ultimately he had a project of Italian unification. Everything he writes in that book is oriented towards that goal. That doesn't mean there aren't certain deep insights we can draw from The Prince. I have read a lot of Machiavelli, and I use his work quite a bit, but we always have to remember that he is writing in that context and is famously known as a teacher of evil. I think we could probably at some level apply the same frame to Dougan, someone who does have deep philosophical insights, but we always have to keep what he's saying in that context of his project of kind of eventual Russian emergence after Western collapse. 00:41:37 Speaker 4: So and I want to get Blake in here because this is sort of his sweet spot too. But my last question is, and the reason I want to talk about this today orin is because I think there is some confusion if you're just like a normy American Conservative, which is nothing bad, by the way, we want you spending most of your time raising your family, raising your kids, like volunteering at church, all those things, teaching little league, but there is like if you just kind of check in on social media, like why why are certain movements seeming to happen? Why are people surprising me with their position on Russia, for example. I think I don't want to give him too much credit, but I think he's a piece of the puzzle of why some of these ideas that he's suggesting. Because the critiques of modern liberalism are valid in many respects us as American conservatives would share those critiques, and they can be seductive to a larger narrative or agenda that he's got. He's so kind of break that down, like, why is it seductive what he's saying to an American conservative. Maybe it's an influencer, maybe it's a podcaster, a think or commentary person. Why is it seductive? But why should we, in your opinion, reject the larger premise? 00:42:48 Speaker 10: Well seductive because frankly Dugan is right about some things. He is drawing on more classic thinkers. He's drying on a Vola, He's drying on a Guanan, He's drying on Carl Schmidt, He's drying on Oswald Spangler. He's drawing on people who have made real and important insights. And so some of the things that he's bringing to the table are things that you do have to grapple with. But like I said, ultimately this his project is one of destroying the West. It is anti American in every way. He really does see America as the great Satan. He does see the need for it to basically die in a conflagration. He often uses these apocalyptic terms that we need kind of this in times destruction of America and the West to ultimately allow these other nations to flourish. A lot of times, even though Dugan will note the differences between civilizations, he blames the natural outcomes of their decisions on the West, as if we are somehow singularly responsible for the bad decisions and bad outcomes of other people's way of being. And so I think it's just important to remember that while those conversations can be important, while that criticism can be valid, because he is drawing from older thinkers that I think do have solid points, Ultimately, I think he's coming to a very dangerous conclusion, one which is deeply anti American. We can address the issues of modernity without burning down our heritage. Those things do not have to coincide well or in What. 00:44:14 Speaker 7: Stands out to me is, as you said, he's super anti American. So it stands out to me that some Americans they like to fixate on this guy. 00:44:22 Speaker 5: I think they like to find. 00:44:23 Speaker 7: Philosophers who are aggressively outside America's orbit. And yet at the same time he seems to me like someone for someone who's supposedly outside of America. He's totally guided to me by currents that are in Western, in American, in our ideological stuff, and he just takes the position of America as terrible using the justifications they provide. This is one and we can get into this in the next segment. He just tweeted this the other day. The very concept of success is deeply immoral. If you are successful, the other is a loser. We shouldn't accept it. We should prosper or suffer together. Otherwise it is satanic. Honestly, that just sounds like he could be the court philosopher for like Zoron Mamdani, he could be the court philosopher for any radical leftist. It basically just sounds like communism. And so it's funny to me that this would appeal to anyone in America. Well, I just don't get I say, anyone on the American right. 00:45:25 Speaker 4: It sounds what you just got to Blake is super important. And let's just throw this tweet up here. The very concept of success is deeply a moral. If you are successful, the other is a loser. We shouldn't accept it. We should prosper or suffer together. Otherwise it is satanic. This doesn't sound like a fourth way. That just sounds like, you know, a communist rehash or something, or and how is this seductive? 00:45:50 Speaker 10: I think that again, it's very attractive to people because a lot of Dugan stuff does attack that decadence of irnity. It does have realistic and reasonable criticisms of certain aspects of modern society. But his prescriptions can often be very terrible, as we see here. One of the things that Dugan does is take the idea from Martin Heidegger of daw sign and apply to individual civilizations. And he believes that all of these individual civilizational das signs are the same and have the same value in the same worth, that we can't judge each other because we do not have each other's experiences. This is if it sounds like postmodernism to people. In many ways it is. It's a kind of a synthesis of traditionalism and postmodernism, which I think again lures a lot of people in because they hear the traditionalism, they see the critiques, they feel that, you know, to be correct, But then ultimately they get led down some of these sideways paths that are ultimately very influenced by things like critical Theory. If you read the Fourth Political Theory, it has chapters on why basically you need to abolish the differences between genders and why you can't. You know, you have to abolish the evils of racism across the world. So these are in the Fourth Political Theory. They aren't just in the man's tweets. They've always been a part of his philosophy. 00:47:09 Speaker 4: Interesting here's another tweet from him. The tradition is the East. Eastern Christianity is tradition. Western Christianity is modernized. The far West Christianity Protestantism is more modern than simply Western Christianity, which he labels his Catholicism. The West is the thrash of history, the black hole in the bottom of reality. I also have to just point out here that his whole worldview is putting sort of philosopher kings, the guys like him at the very top of the hierarchy. In a civilization, this multipolar civilizational world that he's advocating for, with Eurasia as a singular block, he would be the ruler of said civilization. So that's something to always keep in mind. Now you've met this guy, or at least interviewed him. I don't know if it was you know, over zoom or something right, but you did a debate with him. 00:48:06 Speaker 3: What did you perceive in that debate? Is he quick on his feet? 00:48:10 Speaker 4: Did he was he able to answer criticisms of his philosophy, whether well or not? 00:48:16 Speaker 10: So Interestingly, I have both interviewed him and then I was able to arrange a debate between him and another philosopher by the name of Nick Land. People who are on Twitter have probably seen him post pretty regularly, but it was a very interesting discussion. I think again, I don't think Dugan is stupid. I think it's a poor It's a bad idea to underestimate your enemy on this one. He is a very intelligent guy. However, when he was in that debate between himself and Nick Land, it was very interesting because because Nick Land is in many ways a hyper Anglo philosopher. He is extremely interested in the West and believes in the mission of the West and perhaps a way that many people are not as serious when it comes to kind of the hyper modern understanding of the West as where Dugan was very much a East traditionalist, and so the clashing between the. 00:49:02 Speaker 2: Two was very interesting. 00:49:03 Speaker 10: I found that while Dugan was intelligent and was able to defend many of his positions, it did seem like Land was operating at a higher level that ultimately there were several times where he kind of ran into a barrier, and I think that Land very much got the best of him. I did not debate him directly because I think Nick lann is a much more intelligent guy who can bring those criticisms and those questions far more sharply than I can. But if people want to catch that, it is an absolutely fascinating discussion and I think will help you understand a little bit of where the differences are between these two world views. 00:49:35 Speaker 7: So orn, I don't know that too many of our listeners are going to race out and read this guy's books, but so that they can understand him better. Maybe what's a good takeaway if you encounter a podcasters into this, an ex poster who's into this, just someone in real life who's an enthusiast for Dugan, who's American, this guy who wants to basically destroy America. 00:49:59 Speaker 5: What's it maybe indicate about them? For lack of a better word. 00:50:04 Speaker 10: Well, I think that again, the fact that there are truths in Dugan's work does make it attractive to people. I don't think it's ridiculous to find insights there. I have personally found insights in Dugan's work that are helpful. But ultimately we have to remember again that the frame is always one of you know, the Western imperialism is evil, It is going to crush all societies. It must be defeated, The United States must be destroyed, and you ultimately cannot side with that. Just because someone has some insights into something important doesn't mean that they're right. You know, Karl Marx was right that there were some issues with capitalism, that the alienation of labor ultimately does cause certain impacts to people that are negative. However, his solution is horrific and killed hundreds of millions of people and absolutely has to be rejected. And I would see Dugan in very much as a similar light. It's a guy who has certain insights and you can you can find those insights outside of Dugan. Remember, most of his stuff is synthesizing other people's work, so there are plenty of thinkers he's drawn from that you can look at and understand without necessarily having to go to Dougan. And if even if you do read Dugan, you should always remember that he's ultimately an enemy of your civilization. And no matter what, no matter what you critiques he has that have might have some important insight. Ultimately, you can never ever side with the solutions that the man has because they are directly aimed at destroy your own civilization. You should never become a traitor to your own civilization, even if there are some problems with it. We should be trying to renew our civilization, not destroy it. 00:51:35 Speaker 4: Yeah, and our critiques are more pointed at radical progressivism, radical egalitarianism, where you know, everybody gets the same outcome in life. We don't agree with those things. Less so with liberalism, which is you know, our tradition in the West, which is you know, the individual matters. Yet I think you can go into a hyper individualist worldview and materialism and all these things can be very destructive as well. And I think the Bible answers so much of that. We are part of a community, a community of faith. We are brothers and sisters in Christ. We are not hyper individuals, but we have individual rights enshrined in our constitution. 00:52:09 Speaker 3: That's a beautiful thing. 00:52:10 Speaker 4: Orin McIntyre check out his show and check out his Alexander Dugan debates and interviews. 00:52:15 Speaker 3: That's fascinating. Thank you, Oren. 00:52:19 Speaker 4: All right, I'm so excited. The weather is finally warming up, which means grilling season is basically here and sorry, if you live in a colder part of the country where I'm at, it's grilling season. And if you're anything like me, you're already thinking about planning your first backyard barbecue of the year. For me, I already know what's going on the grill, and that's Good Ranchers. Good Ranchers partners with local farmers and ranchers to deliver one hundred percent American meat straight to your door. It's past you're raised, no antibiotics, and no added hormones. It's the kind of quality that you can actually feel good about serving other people around your table. And they just launched custom boxes. Now you can build your own box with the cuts your family loves, steaks for grilling, chicken for weeknight dinners, or whatever you reach for the most. Start your plan today and you'll get free meat included with every order. And with our code Charlie, you'll get twenty five dollars off your first order. That's free meat with every order and twenty five dollars off your first order with code Charlie when you start your plan at good ranchers dot com. Good ranchers dot com American meat delivered. 00:53:26 Speaker 3: All right. 00:53:26 Speaker 4: So I want to bring in Joshua car He's a political commentator. You can find him at x at Joshua Underscore the Underscore car with one R and he attended Tyler Robinson's preliminary hearing and had all kinds of interesting and fascinating. 00:53:44 Speaker 3: Observations. We'll put it that way. 00:53:45 Speaker 4: And you've been so good and loud, Joshua, You've even received death threats for being so loud. So just tell us thirty thousand foot view what you saw in that courtroom and around that courthouse. 00:53:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to be with you guys. Thanks for inviting me today. 00:54:00 Speaker 11: I really wanted to be in the courthouse on a day where a lot of the information was coming out that the public wouldn't be able to see, because I knew there would be bad actors inside the courtroom that day that were trying to lie. Fortunately, I was able to be there on Thursday, which is when a massive portion of the evidence was coming out. Some of that evidence, as we know, and I'm sure you've talked about, was leaked to the public. And when I say leaked, it was a mistake that happened in the courtroom, So I know you guys have seen a lot of that. But beyond what was actually shown in the courtroom that day, I was able to see the emotions on people's faces. I was able to see, frankly, a human side of the defense and the Tyler Robinson side that I didn't realize. I've always been a strong defender of TPUSA, I've been a strong defender of Erica Kirk and all of you guys. But what I didn't realize was that at no point did the Tyler Robinson family, which was sat directly in front of me, by the way, look defiant against the prosecution, look angry. They were simply and I could see it in their eyes because I stared into their eyes. They were sad at seeing what Tyler Robinson had done. And looking at Tyler Robinson, he was completely stone cold. He did not move a muscle the entire time that I was there, And again I was watching him and had a clear view of him for at least eight hours. 00:55:11 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I've talked to some reporters who were in the room. I've obviously talked to some of the team that was in the room, and it's interesting that part you're zeroing in on, which is Tyler Robinson's family. I was told a story. Maybe you could confirm it, I'm not sure. But when they were recounting some of those text messages that were going back and forth, and I want to be somewhat vague, just to respect the privacy of his family as well, because they're not the criminals here, right, or the alleged criminals, And candidly, his parents from all accounts, did a brave thing and it must be terrible, right, And I led to believe that they're probably on the conservative end of the spectrum. But when that text message was read about Gramp's gun looks like it's doing just fine or did just fine, I'm told that one of the family members that was there basically just his head hit the floor, because obviously he must have had a relationship with Grandpa. And again, I'm sorry to be vague. I'm just saying I want to be respectful of their privacy. But when that text was read, that the head just hit the floor. Just complete devastation to kind of realize that his family member and his family member's gun, somebody that probably had a relationship with was used to kill somebody of such important a legend of American conservative American Charlie Kirk. You know, did you see any of that? 00:56:37 Speaker 9: Yeah? 00:56:37 Speaker 2: I did. 00:56:38 Speaker 11: That was probably the most emotional part of the entire day was when they read that specific text that you just referenced. And like I said, I had a perfect view of the entire Robinson family and I won't say who it is either to be respectful to them, but this individual hung their head at that point, and it. 00:56:54 Speaker 2: Was hung pretty much the entire time after that. 00:56:57 Speaker 11: In fact, towards the end, I think maybe the last two or three hours, they didn't come back inside the courtroom. They were clearly very upset. I also heard a lot of emotion behind me. I was right in front of Erica Kirk and Charlie's parents, And you know, one of the directives that we got being in there was you cannot turn your head, You cannot react in any way. If you try to look at somebody to the left or right, you will be kicked out of the courtroom out of respect to the victims, And so I had this moment of just having to look forward and here the family of Charlie Kirk weep behind me, And it was honestly one of the hardest things I have ever had to listen to in my life. 00:57:33 Speaker 2: And I was quite emotional as well. 00:57:35 Speaker 4: You received some death threats to Joshua because you have been outspoken. You were, I guess planned as scheduled to speak at You've used campus after a court hearing one day you ended up having to cancel that. 00:57:49 Speaker 3: Tell us the details. 00:57:51 Speaker 11: Yeah, so you know, I've been in this business a few years now. We receive death threats from time to time. I'm sure both of you are fully used to that, especially in the last ten months, but it's definitely been increased over the last few months. 00:58:03 Speaker 2: Yeah, sadly, but it's been increased over. 00:58:05 Speaker 11: The last few months as I've continued to push back harder and harder against the conspiracy crap that Baron Coleman and Candice Owens and the likes are spreading, and so that kind of reached ahead this week. Again, I'm used to getting those messages online, but it was a little different this week. On Friday, right before I was going to go to this event at UVU again in the same place that Charlie Kirk was murdered, I received a call, actually on my personal cell phone from someone who was impersonating a police officer. They were using phishing tactics I won't go into too much detail on and they were essentially trying to get my address using public records. Fortunately, this person does not know where I live, They do not know my location. But in the moment, frankly, I didn't even realize what they were trying to do. It wasn't until they abruptly hung up that it occurred to me that they were openly trying to dos me, and I saw some other evidence of that online. So my wife respectfully asked me not to attend the event at UVU that night with. 00:59:00 Speaker 2: All of that going on. 00:59:02 Speaker 5: That's unbelievable. 00:59:03 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's horrible, and I'm sorry that you had to experience that, just for standing up for what you believe in, standing up for facts and evidence, which is something that unfortunately in the online space so often gets cast aside. 00:59:19 Speaker 3: Why did you feel so moved to be so vocal. 00:59:23 Speaker 2: That's a really great question. 00:59:25 Speaker 11: Yes, yeah, and I don't mean to say that in any sort of comparison way, but all the way back in September, I started seeing conspiracies come out and it really ticked me off. And if you look at any of my social media or my YouTube channel, you know that really has been my work for the last ten. 00:59:39 Speaker 2: Months is trying to debunk these theories. 00:59:41 Speaker 11: I think part of the reason for me, and I can't really claim any credit for this, is that I live a few minutes away from UVU, and I grew up in Provo, Utah, and I know literally over one hundred people who are at this event with Charlie. In fact, I myself wanted to be at the event that day and wasn't able to because I had a doctor's appointment, and so it being close to home is what has particularly enraged me, frankly with the conspiracy theories. Just knowing individuals that Candice Owens and others that brought up, well, I know for a fact that she is lying about that really take me off. On another personal note, when I was eighteen years old, I lost my father in a work accident that was very tragic and sudden, and so my mother is a widow. 01:00:26 Speaker 2: I have a fierce. 01:00:27 Speaker 11: Loyalty to widows and feel that, you know, I've just never seen this attack on someone, and I know how hard it was for my mother to lose her husband, and so to see someone lose their husband and then be viciously attacked and not support it has really just made me emotional and made me want to be a strong defender of Erica as well as the truth. 01:00:47 Speaker 4: Thank you for that, And genuinely, what was was it? What was it like around the courthouse, Joshua, Because I've seen you interacting with some of these other people that were more on the conspiratorial side of things and pushing alternative theories, right, What was it like around the courthouse? 01:01:05 Speaker 3: Was it? 01:01:06 Speaker 4: Was it kind of a circus environment? Was it pretty subdued? Did you see them? Were they trying to recruit people? I'm just curious what it was like out there. 01:01:14 Speaker 11: Yeah, so I was there Monday morning when everyone came, and Monday morning was actually quite subdued. The mainstream media was kind of the dominant force there. Everyone was watching people come in. I did notice one person who I knew was a notable kind of Candice Owans fan or loyalist but she was quite quiet and subdued, and I thought, this is very good. You know, it was either people there to support Erica Kirk or the mainstream media, and that was great. But as time went on, and when I was there on Thursday all day, there were more and more Candice Owens fans kind of coming out of the woodworks. I would say it was mostly respectful outside, but I will say in order to get in the courthouse on Thursday, I had to camp out for so I actually had someone go for me at nine pm the previous day and get a spot, and then I showed up at two am morning of Thursday. 01:02:01 Speaker 2: And when I. 01:02:02 Speaker 11: Got there, there was bickering and these people were essentially trying to debate other people in line with random conspiracy theories. Of course, they didn't want to engage in any of the facts that had been presented by the prosecution. Instead they brought up ancillary, brazy things that had nothing to do with the actual case. So it certainly increased over time, and I did hear them actively talking about being at the September first hearing. 01:02:26 Speaker 3: Were there police. 01:02:27 Speaker 4: There were there security in that line waiting to get in. 01:02:32 Speaker 11: There were police kind of around since it was in the early morning, you know, there were police cars that would occasionally come in. 01:02:37 Speaker 2: I felt relatively safe there. The lights were on. 01:02:40 Speaker 11: As it got closer towards the day, around six o'clock, the police force was very strong, very present. The head of security came out told everyone, you know, we're doing this by the book. If you want to do any shenanigans, you're immediately off the premises. And then what really stunned me, frankly was in the courthouse. In the courtroom itself, I think there are eight police officers kind of staring us down at any time, And to be honest, I appreciated it because as someone who's now a public figure and who is getting these death threats, it was nice to be able to be in that setting and feel safe and feel like I can actually watch the evidence being presented without something crazy going down. 01:03:17 Speaker 7: Joshua, I was just a few questions that I think it's good to build upon this because you faced targeting people trying to dox you who seem to be coming from this side of the issue, and especially the doxing part that stood out to me that's a tactic we're familiar with from the far left that they'll try to get people's identities so they can swat them, so they can pick at their home. Nothing good is ever going to come of that, and it's never something that would occur to Andrew or myself or people we know here. So I've sometimes nicknamed those supporters Cantifa because they remind me of Antifa, But maybe you've had other encounters. What's their ideological makeup of people who are really committed to these conspiracy theories about the case, what's driving them, what's motivating them in your view. 01:04:12 Speaker 2: That's a really great question. 01:04:13 Speaker 11: I used to get more death threats from the left, and it feels like now I'm getting it more from the far right. It seems to me that these people are more far right isolationists. But I think for the most part, it's actually not as political as we think it is. I think the far left is always going to docks, they're always going to send the death threats, But I think for this case specifically, it's so much more occult of personality for them. It's more about the political commentators and the podcasters that they're following. I think there's a huge loneliness epidemic. Frankly, you know, I was watching Charlie Kirk just now in the commercial break, and he had so much timeless wisdom he's speaking in this clip. I just watched two young women talking about what is going to give them fulfillment, what's going to make them satisfied in life. 01:04:52 Speaker 2: They're talking about having. 01:04:53 Speaker 11: Kids, and unfortunately there are so many women specifically right now, but still men as well, but I'm seeing it more from women that are not pursuing the things that give them life and satisfaction and happiness, and so instead they're turning to things like crazy podcasters who give them conspiracy theories. And the reality is all of us love a good story, we love interesting things to look into, and so unfortunately that can really take a part of the worst parts of us as humans. And I think that's what's happened for a lot of these people. I don't even really know if it's a left or right wing kind of thing. 01:05:25 Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually don't. I don't. 01:05:27 Speaker 4: I think this is actually an important point because I don't ascribe any of this movement or whatever it is you want to call it a social media scene as right coded at all. It's conservative at all. It actually feels very left coded. To Blake's point, I mean, I think the nickname he applied is probably apt, right, because so much of what we're seeing, you know, collective guilt for all Jewish people, right, just completely going like every answer it's like a Sunday Skit Sunday school kid where every answer is Jesus, you know, it's like every answer is Israel or jew Andrew. 01:06:00 Speaker 7: I'd be really interested if there was a way we could dissect this, For example, whether a lot of these people maybe they were originally apolitical or somewhat to the left, they identified as moving to the right, maybe during COVID as an example, where that was that realigned a lot of people politically. I'd be really interested if a lot of the people who are getting involved in this had that arc of starting on the left moving to the right. They maybe still identify as on the right, but these tendencies are resurfacing in some way. I think it'd be so interesting to unpack because this phenomenon is so alien to anything I've seen come out of the right anytime in the past twenty years. There's been sometimes they've gotten into theories, but the very personal aspect of it of really going after Erica, going after Turning Point, going after people Charlie Knew, doxing them. 01:06:53 Speaker 5: It's just it's so left coded to me. Just I don't know where they're learning these habits from. 01:06:59 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking of Bill Ayers and you know the idea of going after your political opponents personalizing it. 01:07:08 Speaker 3: I'm thinking of. 01:07:11 Speaker 4: The tactics where you use personal insults, where you personalize the attacks, and then you kind of make a sport out of terrorizing and harassing. That does seem to be a left wing tactic that we're seeing play out from right coded accounts. 01:07:29 Speaker 3: But I think to your point. 01:07:31 Speaker 4: Blake, there probably a lot of these people have been so journals on the political journeys and have been shape shifters, and they're returning to their neutral position, their default position. 01:07:40 Speaker 5: Very possible. 01:07:41 Speaker 7: I have another question, Joshua, since you're from that area around UVU, I know something we're all worried about is this will likely go towards a trial. They will be filling a jury. We asked Andrew Burkhart about this. What's the overall environment like in the area around where the shooting happened, where are there is there a high risk that if you just selected twelve random registered voters from Utah County that will get someone who'd just be very committed to I'm going to vote for an acquittal no matter what, because I just will never ever believe that Tyler Robinson did this. Should we worry about that? 01:08:21 Speaker 2: It's a concern I've had as well. 01:08:23 Speaker 11: It's something that's constantly in my mind, especially over the last seven days. I think the good news is that most people, if you ask them, do you know, like, have you looked into this a ton? Most of them are gonna say, oh, I've heard these weird things about it online because unfortunately Canniston's has done a fantastic job of propagandizing all of this. But the good news is most people, to be honest with you, really don't know anything about this. And if they don't know anything about it one hundred percent, the prosecution is going to do a fantastic job convincing them. So I think that needs to be the strategy from the prosecution and picking the jury is they want people who really know as little as pop possible because it's just such a slam dunk. I mean, the preliminary hearing alone was enough evidence to really bring a conviction pretty much, and I know for a fact they're going to have a lot more when they go to trial. So I guess overall, to answer your question, no, I'm not concerned. I think there are a lot of people, a meaningful group of people, who yes, they know a lot, Yes they are very bought into the conspiracies, but I think the prosecution can wead them out in an effective way. And the vast majority, I mean, I would say upwards of ninety to ninety five percent heard about this shooting thought it was awful, and beyond that they really don't know a lot about it. 01:09:37 Speaker 7: That's very reassuring to hear, and I can only hope this will grow because I just feel the nasty behavior that comes out of this, I feel it has to be very alienating. Again, I think back twenty twenty, for example, there was a lot of sympathy towards towards like the BLM movement, for example, and then they start torching cities, they start smashing shops, they start terrorizing people, and it turns people against that, and I just feel there's really nothing likable about this entire movement to me, So I just have to hope that I have to hope that you're correct about how this will evolve well. 01:10:12 Speaker 4: And Joshua, did you feel that the last week was a seminal week in the tide turning? Did you feel a discernible difference thirty seconds one percent? 01:10:22 Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean there's a part of me and I this is totally a selfish human part of me that is seeing all of the tides turning, and I'm like, well, dang, it would have been really awesome if you guys had like joined in in September when some of us actually just took a stand and had the courage to do that. 01:10:35 Speaker 2: But it's fine. 01:10:36 Speaker 11: At the end of the day, it's good that the tides are turning one hundred percent both with normal average people it's turning, but also you're seeing it all over x. I think Candice and her hole are are pretty much done. 01:10:47 Speaker 4: For Joshua Carr, thank you for being brave and for being brave early. 01:10:51 Speaker 3: We appreciate you. 01:10:56 Speaker 5: For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to Charlie her dot com.