Jake Metcalf on Enduring the Unendurable

00:00:03 Speaker 1: My name is Charlie kirk I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You got to stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. 00:00:31 Speaker 2: Go start at turning point. 00:00:32 Speaker 1: You would say college chapter. Go start at turning point, yould say high school chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. 00:00:39 Speaker 2: I gave my. 00:00:39 Speaker 1: Life to the Lord in fifth grade, most important decision I ever made in my life, and I encourage you to do the same. Here I am Lord, Use me. Buckle up, everybody, Here we go. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirkshaw, a company that specializes in gold I rays and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegold investments dot Com. That is Noblegoldinvestments dot com. 00:01:17 Speaker 2: All right, welcome back everybody. 00:01:20 Speaker 3: We are monitoring the first day of the preliminary hearing in the State versus Tyler Robinson, and there was a lot of back and forth going on about exhibits. I saw some reports saying that, you know, they weren't going to show any of the evidence, but actually that was a motion or that was a move made by the defense, not the state. The state is moving to show them all, but the defense has a concern about those being displayed or published, quote unquote published before they've been admitted as evidence. So that's the back and forth going on there, which is which is interesting. I do have some notes on that that it's the hearing started with arguments over publishing of evidence beyond the courtroom, per the defense request. Perther defense, the state wants evidence published. Defense doesn't want anything to be public, especially prior to the judge of meitting as evidence. So that's the central tension there. We've got Jay Town, former prosecutor that is going to be joining us in just a second. And we also have which I think is a very important guest. We have Austin Metcalfe's father and that's Jeff Metcalf. He's going to be joining us. I just reached out to him because there's very few people that can understand the torment that Erica Kirk and Rob and Catherine, Charlie's parents are are experiencing right now. Just having to be in the courtroom with Tyler Robinson, I can only imagine the agony that they are currently experiencing. So please pray for Erica, Pray for rob and Catherine, Pray for the whole team, the larger team that's in Utah today. And it is true, Don Junior is in the courtroom by Erica, rob and Catherine's side, standing in solidarity with them, So we appreciate Don for doing that. Blake any thoughts, I gotta I'm gonna pull something together here. 00:03:29 Speaker 4: I mean, we just we told you last week we're committed to seeing this process through from beginning to end. So we know this is a little unusual from our normal show, but it's exactly what we want to be doing in this moment. We want to There's been so many false claims about this process online. There's been so many There's been so much I think agitation because people have been waiting for this. They want to see the process of justice play out. And because there were so many delays. 00:03:57 Speaker 2: A lot of other stuff intruded, and. 00:03:59 Speaker 4: We're so glad we're finally at this point where we're seeing witnesses come up, we're seeing people talk about it, and we're committed to showing every minute of it that we're able to. 00:04:09 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:04:11 Speaker 3: So the we got, like I said, we've got Jay Town and we've got Austin Metcalf's father. 00:04:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is interesting too. So there was a you just heard. 00:04:23 Speaker 3: The last witness before they took the break is actually a UVU police officer. I'm not sure his name presently, but essentially, he said he heard a shot and then he was he was asked what kind of shot. He said it was a it sounded like a rifle because it was louder. He seemed to be familiar with the type of shot. So, you know, the internet's going to be full of all these alternate theories. Here's the police officer that was on duty that day saying I heard a rifle shot. Okay, so that's a that's a key piece of evidence. 00:04:56 Speaker 2: There. Here we go. 00:05:00 Speaker 3: The defense attempted to object to entering the first exhibit a photo of the courtyard in for publication the State of Utah. So in this photograph affair, is this photograph a fair and accurate depiction of the area of UVU campus on September ten, twenty twenty five, Defense Your honor, we would object to inability to inauthenticate. There's not been a foundation laid that this officer took this photo can verify when it was taken or by whom it was taken. 00:05:26 Speaker 2: So we would object. 00:05:27 Speaker 3: So this is the sort of back and forth that is going to play out over the next couple of days. We are being sort of warned that this is going to be typical that you know, they're going to present evidence, there's going to be objections. It all is very procedural, and I mean, I don't know, there hasn't been a whole heck of a lot presented yet, but there there was a mention of meth that I'm trying to get. 00:05:55 Speaker 2: I'm trying to get clarity on. Oh. 00:05:57 Speaker 3: Also, Judge Graff has entered in a picture for evidence of the screwdriver found by Officer Bagley, So that's his name into the record. I will go ahead and admit so that was a direct quote from Judge graft. So that was the the officer that heard the rifle shot. Officer Bagley, he apparently was the one that discovered the screwdriver on top of the. 00:06:21 Speaker 4: Building building allegedly used for assembling disassembling the rifle. 00:06:27 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I you know, I know there's some controversy over assembling or disassembling, so we'll we'll hold on that and not make any judgments until the evidence is presented in court. So that's about where we're at right now. You know, we weren't expecting Uh oh, we have Jay on the phone right now. All right, Jay Town are you there. 00:06:53 Speaker 5: I am here, I'm here, so sorry or we weren't able to do video today. But but that's okay. It's better they're staring at you anyway. 00:07:02 Speaker 2: No, No, that's great. I appreciate it, Jay. 00:07:04 Speaker 3: I know we've been it's very difficult to kind of predict the clock for this hearing. They keep kind of suggesting they're going to have a break at one time, and then it either goes long or they get delayed on the first you know, the first marker, and so then everything that the timeline is shifting. But I guess that's what we have to expect this week. All right, So, Jay, you have been monitoring this hearing right very very closely. You're a career prosecutor, your former US attorney. Tell us what you have observed from this hearing thus far. 00:07:39 Speaker 5: Well, a couple of things. One from the prosecution perspective, they've been very meticulous. You know, anytime you put a witness on, especially a professional like a police officer, which my understanding is there's going to be four police officers to testify to probably forty or fifty different exhibits, and you're going to go through their experience, going to go through, you know, where they were on that day, and then they're going to start to really really narrow the focus about everything that they saw there is relative to the crime. You mentioned. I heard a rifle shot and why do you say that, Well, because a pistol a firearm, they make different noises and you can tell a pistol shot from a thirty odd six. And so that was I think, you know, pretty pretty interesting considering some of the tinfoil hat crowd out there, right, But at the same time, the Defense Council is going to make this as laborious as possible. There are no rules of evidence in a preliminary hearing, yet they've objected to every single objection of exhibit thus far based on foundation. Now let me just say it for everybody. If you know your daughter or a friend takes picture of your backyard, just because you didn't the picture on that day, and maybe you weren't even in the country on the day that picture was taken, you can still authenticate a picture of your backyard as a fair and accurate depiction of your backyard. And that's all he was asking the officers to do. Frankly, I've had Google Earth images authenticated by police officers or by the owner of the wherever that the Google Earth was depicting. So defense is going to make this laborious. The thing about that is if they do that in front of a jury, a jury will hate them because they are just dragging it on, just making it hard unnecessarily because all the objections are overruled and then the evidence comes anyway, So we would just waste it another twenty minutes because you guys wanted to jump up for some preservation of the record objection that was meaningless. 00:09:52 Speaker 3: Yeah, and so do you think that this is just a preliminary trial tactic, then Jay that they will. 00:09:58 Speaker 5: Do you think that be you know, but typically you just wouldn't. You know, your prelim hearing tactic and your trial tactic they're about the same thing. And if we're you know, if you know, history is any indicator, they've objected to everything. They've been a very litigious defense group, and so I don't know that they're not going to object to everything on the record. Build a record because they know. Here's the thing. The reason you do that, the reason why you look scared is because you are scared because you know there is overwhelming evidence against your client and the only way to save his life is to hope for an appeal and appellate court somewhere that says, you know what, that judge shouldn't have overruled, that it should have been sustained and YadA, YadA, and therefore you got to have a new trial. Well, okay, well we're just going to take a plea deal now because it's fifteen years from now and some of the witnesses are dead or or don't remember. It's just an old case. And uh, and that's the whole that's the tactic I've seen it done over and over again. There's nothing new here. The evidence is overwhelming against Tyler is in the indictment, right, I mean just the but the evidence itself. And we haven't even heard uh from you know, the the lover and and uh and the parents from Tyler Robinson where admissions were likely made by Tyler Robinson. 00:11:31 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's interesting. I mean we've got an exhibit. I mean, they're they're, uh, they they they've got a list right of exhibits that they're planning on. Right, So we've got the drone image of UBU, photo of the screwdriver, daytime photo of sniper perch, photo of sniper perge, photo video of mother with children in crowd, written statement, video of shooting from behind the questions, written statement, video of shooting from behind Charlie Kirk, written statement, video of shooting from behind the booth, photo of the rifle in the bushes, photo of the rifle in the bushes, photo of rifle in box, medical examiner report, UVU surveillance, doorbell camera. And then they've got recorded statement from Lance Twigs. So, I mean there's a ton here. I want to talk to you about an issue. 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You can enroll or switch your program at any time. See why so many believers are taking a leap of faith. Start today by visiting Cchministries dot org, slash Charlie and use promo code Charlie for a fifty percent credit towards your first month that Sehministries dot org slash Charlie and use promo code Charlie. You know, Jay, It begs the question because I saw some people mentioning this on social media, you know, other lawyers kind of chiming in. And I don't know if this is specific to Utah law, but there was some people that were sort of saying, I'm surprised they didn't waive the preliminary that the defense didn't wave the preliminary hearing. 00:14:01 Speaker 2: What do you make of that? Is that even an option in the state of Utah, first of all? 00:14:05 Speaker 6: And what. 00:14:09 Speaker 3: Assuming that they had a choice one way or the other, can you surmise tactics from either decision? 00:14:14 Speaker 5: Well, I am I am surprised frankly that they didn't waive the preliminary hearing. The prosecutor said that they have received that the defense counselor has received every piece of evidence. So it's not like they're just wondering is there any evidence against Tyler Robinson. They've received at all. They know that the evidence is overwhelming, So why air it all this week when there's no not even any rules of evidence, right, So anything that might be in admissible is not inadmissible this week. And what's happening is the world is watching, people are hearing the evidence against Tyler Robinson. No longer word defense counsel will be able to hide against the tinfoil hat crowd and hope that they can draw some of those jurors for the actual jury try because there won't be any legs for the tinfoil hack crowd to stand on because it will be so overwhelming the admissions, the ballistics reports, the fingerprints, the DNA, some of the other evidence that likely exists that hasn't even been commented on yet, and so wave it the old I mean, it's not like That's the other thing is that it's not like this is going to be sworn testimony from eyewitnesses where they said they saw a small dog one day and then on the stand they say they saw a puppy and they try to make reasonable doubt out of that. The hearsay is admissible. So you know, the officers when they're having they conversations with other people and they testify about those conversations, that would be hearsay at trial. So there's really no ability to appeach on that hearsay because it won't even be admissible at trial. You have to actually call the witness. So again, it's just a I don't know that this defense team is h is the dream team. That's that's kind of the conclusion I'm reaching at the moment. 00:16:08 Speaker 4: Any thoughts, but it's just I've been expressing all this bafflement to people that it seems every time there's a famous trial, the rules are totally different. We obviously have fifty states, but it's all just very overwhelming. So we're very grateful to have you here, someone who's experienced to walk us through this. I thought I've had. 00:16:29 Speaker 2: I know. 00:16:29 Speaker 4: They say they plan for this to take about the week. It's going to be full days. Other than Wednesday, they have a half day. Is there any chance this ends surprisingly early or goes surprisingly long? 00:16:39 Speaker 7: Could this go into the next week with. 00:16:42 Speaker 5: This defense team? It's possible. I mean, the prosecution really, if the judge allows things to move along, the prosecution really should be done today. Most of this stuff is just being entered, like the medlical exam. I mean, they have to prove that Charlie Kirk did in fact die and that he died from a gunshot wound, and then it was deemed a homicide by the MG. So those. I mean, those are all just sort of admitted pro forma. A lot of these exhibits will be admitted pro forma. So they should be done today, maybe first thing in the morning. But this defense team that for some reason, they want to drag their client through and let the whole world see just how guilty he is, and you know, maybe poison the jury pool. Maybe that's the only tactic that makes sense here, is that they're trying to make warder so hard because everybody has seen such overwhelming evidence of Tyler Robinson's guilt. 00:17:43 Speaker 4: Well, so you say they could get it all done today. So for example, the Lance Twiggs statement that they have that they can't cross examine, But are we going to hear the whole statement? 00:17:53 Speaker 7: Are they going to give a summary of the statement? 00:17:55 Speaker 3: Are they just going to state the video we have this and you know we'll get ideo a video interview that they did with them. So I would presume, Jay, that they're gonna show the whole thing, right, or at least they're gonna show the. 00:18:07 Speaker 5: Video they are, or at least play the audio of it if the judge doesn't want to show it, which is that's fine. 00:18:15 Speaker 8: Uh. 00:18:15 Speaker 5: If I'm the state at this point, every piece of evidence I'm putting in because you guys are making me go through this ridiculous process. You know what your client did, so does he, but you want to go through it. Fine, I am gonna paint the most guilty person that the that ever lived for the whole world to see and behold. So I'm not pulling punches if I'm the prosecution at this point, you're gonna make me waste a week on this. Fine, guess what your guy is gonna look like? The most guilty person that ever lived? And he is, so go ahead, stay to Utah. 00:18:49 Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting. 00:18:50 Speaker 3: So you think the tactics here then, And maybe I'm reading into what you said, Jay, is that you know they're gonna they're gonna make this laborious. They're gonna make make it as painful as possible. Uh maybe either you know, just to keep keep pushing the psychology. Uh maybe taint a jury pool is Do you think that there's a tactic here where they're trying to get. 00:19:13 Speaker 2: The evidence out. 00:19:15 Speaker 3: So that because the internet does what the Internet does with this stuff and the tinfoil hot crowd as you as you call them, are they banking on that do. 00:19:22 Speaker 2: You think it could be. 00:19:24 Speaker 5: I mean, they could just be banking on breaking the will of the prosecution that they just don't have it in the energy to fight for the Kirk family, for Charlie Kirk, And that very well could be that they that they think that, you know, maybe they'll just give up and give them life without parole. 00:19:44 Speaker 2: I don't think that's gonna happen. Yeah, it better not happen. 00:19:48 Speaker 5: Yeah, but that I mean, you look, all these strategies are losers guts. That's the thing you got to remember. From the defense perspective, defense lawyer's perspective, everything they do is going to cause a loss. Right, their guy is gonna is gonna be found guilty and likely sentenced to death. So if that's the case, then I mean, what strategy isn't worth trying? 00:20:11 Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, that's a really I think that's a really interesting point. Yeah. 00:20:16 Speaker 3: Yeah, when you when you sort of like don't have the evidence on your side and there's not a whole lot of outs, you're just kind of throwing stuff at the wall to see if you could get the judge to do something that could trigger a drag it out or get it reversible on appeal. I find that like a really interesting psychology for the defense to be. 00:20:36 Speaker 7: People keep speculating that the defense might. 00:20:41 Speaker 4: Be hoping on can we get a weirdo on the jury, who's just going to who'd be open to thinking Israel did this, the Trump administration did this. I imagine it's basically malpractice for the lawyer to openly play to that, and they don't want to end up getting disbarred, but it would that be in the back of their heads that longer we drag this out, the more crazy people there will be, and that could improve our odds of a mistrial. 00:21:07 Speaker 5: Well perhaps, I mean, you do broaden the pool. The longer the crazies get to run around on the Internet, then the more crazies there might be. But look, the prosecution is going to have a team of people scrubbing social media, scrubbing chat rooms, everything they can get their handle hands on, to be looking for anything as it relates to Charlie Kirk. And there are twelve people in the state of Utah that haven't formed an opinion about Tyler Robinson's guilt, but also don't subscribe to the tinfoil hat crowd. I guess as I'm going to continue to call them because you know, I mean, they can be fair minded, open minded. They have to be able to subscribe to the death penalty. That'll be difficult to state to Utah as well, very conservative, very religious state. But here in great State Alabama, you know, we'd do it on the regulars, and you know, some people can get past it because justice is important. So again, the defense counsel, they're going to try every single tactic. They're going to try to break the will of the prosecution, and that ain't gonna happen. 00:22:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really see. 00:22:16 Speaker 3: I mean, when when you've got this much evidence, right, Jay, you would think that the prosecution is sort of willing to go through brick walls if they have to, you know, all these objections, all this procedural stuff. I mean, I can't I can't imagine that they that they would be cowed by that. All right, So we're going to go back to the hearing. Jay Town, thank you so much for joining. We're going to be in close contact this week, my friend. 00:22:41 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. 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Just go to yrefi dot com and tell them your friend Andrews sent you. All right, welcome back. Lots of information there that was just gone through. And then we had we see the defense cross examining officer Bagley. You know, we hear about the sniper's nest the impressions on the ground, how officer Badley, you know, first experienced the noises, the sound of the shot. What he put in his police report very procedural, very by the book. Everything feels very deliberate. These are my general takeaways here. I don't see anything that's surprising yet but noteworthy certainly. 00:24:31 Speaker 7: I mean, you see it. I was messaging a friend of mine. 00:24:34 Speaker 4: It's a little remarkable obviously it's such a high profile case than when you see these police officers being asked, what were you on campus for? Oh, there was a guest speaker that day. Do you know the name of that guest speaker? 00:24:46 Speaker 2: Yes? 00:24:46 Speaker 1: I do. 00:24:47 Speaker 7: Yeah, Well, and they are really they're laying that all out. 00:24:50 Speaker 4: But this gets back to you want to make sure everything is entirely by the book as this goes through, precisely because it's so high profile, precisely because there are people who will seize on literally anything they possibly can to we believe, help help the person we believe is guilty escape yet full culpability. 00:25:12 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, it's the the sort of procedural nature of it is fascinating to watch. Actually, you know, so you've got officer Bagley, so he says, yeah, I signed up for an overtime shift for this for this event. And the way that they have the exhibits so that they're not displayed publicly. 00:25:33 Speaker 2: I think this is an. 00:25:35 Speaker 3: Interesting clip to show just to kind of go through the way that, you know, the step by step process that has to be followed here based on Judge Graft's instructions. So he actually has to get off the witness stand to go in point where he found the screwdriver, so you don't actually get to see it, but he's off camera pointing to it. Let's let's go out and play it just as a good example. It's not twenty three. 00:25:54 Speaker 6: Go ahead and publish Exhibit three point one, Officer Badley, So you testify that this is the screw driver as you saw it on September tenth, twenty twenty five. Correct, Yes, I'm going to. 00:26:07 Speaker 9: And this was on top of which roof Lowsie Building, and in. 00:26:10 Speaker 6: Relationship to the entrance that the stairway and when you hopped over the rail to get there. 00:26:16 Speaker 9: Where it wasn't located about ten or fifteen feet in. Okay, if I. 00:26:19 Speaker 6: Could your honor bring up State's exhibit number two that was previously admitted. I would like to have Officer Bagny come down from the witness stand and point on that exhibit where approximately where this screwdriver was located. So if you can describe where you saw that screwdriver, point to that. 00:26:41 Speaker 9: Yeah, so this is the Loacie building right here with the light gray. 00:26:44 Speaker 3: Here's the guardrail in the center of the picture with the red brick just over that about ten to fifteen feet in out right there. 00:26:51 Speaker 6: Thank you. 00:26:51 Speaker 9: You can take your seat again. 00:26:54 Speaker 2: So that was interesting. 00:26:55 Speaker 3: The other the I think that's just a good example of how he has to we have to navigate these exhibits so that they're not published. Just a quick programming note for anybody watching on the stream. We have je Metcalf, Austin Metcalf's dad just about to join us, and I know he's got some words of encouragement for Erica, you know, speaking of which, there's an interesting report here. I'll try and get the graphic for everybody here. This is a I've confirmed that this is actually a reporter inside the courtroom. Here there's I guess this is Let me get the name of this reporter. Senior national correspondent for News Nation, Brian Enton if you could throw that graphic up when you get it, just like a screen grab of the tweet, but he said seen from inside the Tyler Robinson courtroom, Erica Kirk was crying before the hearing started. Donald Trump Juniors in the front row with his wife. Tyler Robinson was laughing with his attorney before the hearing started. Erica left during the description of the show shooting. So, I mean, I just think it's like important just to kind of understand that this is you know, there's a lot of noise, there's a lot of attention on this, there's a lot of you know, back and forth. I'm sure some of you have seen my my Twitter back and forth with Candace or Blake's all that's noise, because actually, what is really important here is the fact that these are human beings that are dealing with this awful experience. And I just can't imagine being in that courtroom right now, and the fact that Erica has to do that and be in front of all those people for something she is, I mean, she's a victim here. And you know rob and Catherine Kirk, Charlie's parents as well. 00:28:50 Speaker 4: And we should know we've seen Erica has never seen a video of the shooting, She's never really listened closely to a description of it. She does avoid doing that, and so when he says she walked out, she's walking out because the officer's describing. 00:29:08 Speaker 7: What he saw and what happened, and that's still very challenging for her. 00:29:13 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, and I believe we have our guest is just about ready. Jeff Metcalf. 00:29:21 Speaker 3: Again, I reached out to Jeff because there's very few people, especially in sort of the more recent you know, days and weeks and months, that could relate to. 00:29:32 Speaker 2: What Eric is going through. 00:29:34 Speaker 3: And Rob and Catherine, of course, Charlie's parents more than Jeff, and so Jeff Metcalf. Austin Metcalf's father joins us. Now, Jeff, welcome to the show, and thank you so much for making the time. And I see you're wearing a beautiful shirt there. 00:29:52 Speaker 9: Sir, Thank you, thank you for having me on. 00:29:56 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, with you, it's. 00:30:00 Speaker 3: Kind of easy because I'm not talking about details of the case. I'm not talking about procedural, you know, elements that the lawyers are throwing out there. I just want to hear from you, and I'm sure Erica and Rob and Catherine, Charlie's parents would love to hear from you too, because you've been through something terrible and tragic and awful, and you've experienced the crazy media attention and the social media of it all, and you know you were a victim because you lost your son and you had to go through hell to get justice for him. And so the floor is yours, sir. We'd love to hear what you What you want to tell Erica, what you want to tell Rob and Catherine in this moment. 00:30:43 Speaker 8: Well, first, my condolences go out with them, says, There aren't really words that can make you feel better, but knowing that someone has gone through and understand maybe what you're feeling gives you a little bit more comfort when it comes from them. 00:31:06 Speaker 9: But just tell them, you know. 00:31:08 Speaker 8: I know they're strong in their faith, so am I. And that's what's gotten me through so far. From me, but sitting in that courtroom for the first time ever, facing the person that's accused of murdering you know, either your spouse or your child, it takes a range of emotions. It's a roller coaster ride while you sit there, and to be able to maintain and keep your thought process coherent is very challenging at the least. There's a million different emotions that pulls you one hundred different ways. You know, there's the human side of you that that sits on your shoulder and whispers in. 00:31:54 Speaker 9: Your ear the things you really don't want to hear or shouldn't hear. 00:31:58 Speaker 8: And then there's the little guy on this side of the shoulder whispers in your ear and tells you what you should do and what you shouldn't do, and what you and who you try to be. And it goes back to an old Indian story about the young lad who asked the chief, you know what's. 00:32:14 Speaker 9: Inside of us? 00:32:15 Speaker 8: And he said, well, there's two wolves that live inside you, and one live is full of hate, anger, fear, and the other one is love, compassion, kindness. And the young Indians said, well, which one wins? And he said the ones you feed the most. So it's the same thing with emotions. When you have like for forgiveness for me people when because this is what happened when Erica stood up there and said she forgave him, that was the same exact thing I did. And my phone started blowing up because they're like, oh my god. You know, she just forgave him, just like you. And I said, people don't understand forgiveness. Forgiveness is for me, so I don't. 00:33:03 Speaker 9: Carry hate, anger, revenge in that inside of me. 00:33:08 Speaker 8: You have to let that go and rely on your faith because it says vengeance is mine saith the Lord. 00:33:17 Speaker 9: So I mean you can, you can go scriptural, but realistically, for. 00:33:22 Speaker 8: Your mental health, you really need to learn how to let that go so you don't carry it around so it won't eat you up like cancer. And that's the reason I was able to forgive so fast, because I know what I needed to do for me as a Christian, and it doesn't make me any more or better or less of a Christian because at this point, even my son cannot forgive him for what he did. 00:33:46 Speaker 9: And I told him that's fine, you don't have to. But this is a personal choice for me and a personal choice with my faith that this is the path that I choose to go. 00:33:57 Speaker 3: Now. 00:33:57 Speaker 9: I don't forgive this person for actions. 00:34:01 Speaker 8: I mean I have to forgive him and hope to God that he can repent and find Jesus Christ as a savior. Doesn't take the fact the way that he murdered my son doesn't take the fact away I'm still human to have emotions. Don't think I'm not angry, don't think I'm not sad, don't think I don't cry. 00:34:17 Speaker 9: I mean, all these things are true, but to make it the final. 00:34:22 Speaker 8: Destination of where I know I'm gonna end up beside Austin at some point and then he can tell me why the understanding because I don't have understanding at this moment. I just have to trust God's plan because I don't understand why he needed my son at seventeen. But I'm also very aware there's evil in this world and it does exist. And like I've always said, light always overcomes darkness. So no matter what I've learned to try to tell myself, this is only temporary. Whatever's happening to me is only temporary. You will get through it because a saying I came with a long time ago is if God brought you to it, he can bring you through it. So I have no idea what God has planned for me. I sure didn't see this coming at all, but it does reshape you. It does break you down, and it does you become someone different because you're never going to be the person you were before that person. 00:35:35 Speaker 9: Is gone, and you have to learn how to live. 00:35:39 Speaker 8: And I don't want to say a new normal because I hate that phrase because there's nothing normal about it. 00:35:47 Speaker 9: But you have to learn how. 00:35:49 Speaker 8: What I chose to do is one of the things I've learned is instead of learning to learn how to live without. 00:35:55 Speaker 9: Him, I'm going to live for him. So I'm going to keep his name out there. 00:36:02 Speaker 8: I'm going to do you know, I'll probably form a five OHO one three C three and get some nonprofit and organization, uh you know, all in for also Metcalf Foundation or something, because I want to keep it going. 00:36:17 Speaker 9: I want to help people out there. 00:36:19 Speaker 8: I want to be able to uh keep the message alive because I think nowadays, in today's society, the youth has no impulse control, UH, de escalation skills, conflict resolution skills. I think some of these things need to be taught early on, even in school. I think it could be a curriculum. I would love to go around and speak to high school and colleges and wherever would want to hear me speak upon this. I would I would love to be approached so I could spread the word and do something like that. 00:36:53 Speaker 9: I mean because right now. 00:36:55 Speaker 8: At this point, I really don't have a clue what I'm going to do next with my life, and I just trust God that he's going to point me in the direction, you know. I mean, yes, I'm a Yes, I'm a big fan of Turning Point. Yes, I was a big fan of Charlie Kirk. I mean, so, I mean has nothing. 00:37:14 Speaker 9: A lot of people will say, well, you know, well he was racist. He was No, he wasn't. 00:37:18 Speaker 8: No, he wasn't if you listen to him, just like you know, I was taking out of context. People can take snippets and then turn it into their narrative and that's and that's totally unfair. And to to misrepresent someone like that, I mean, really, what kind of person are you? 00:37:38 Speaker 9: And what are you trying to achieve? 00:37:40 Speaker 8: Are you just out there stirring the pot, trying to get clicks, trying to make a living off social media or TikTok? 00:37:46 Speaker 9: I mean, are you do? Are you do? Are you actually have value that you're putting out there or is it really just crack? 00:37:53 Speaker 3: Jeff, That's what I hear you saying, is you know you're you want to take this tragedy and turn it into and yeah, talked about talking on speaking on campuses or at schools or whatever. You know, we'd love to help you do that because I do think you have a really important message to spread and and you know, to live with that purpose, live for Austin. I find so much of what you were just saying, you know, I, you know, Blake, and I lost somebody too, but not on the level of you or Erica or Rob and Catherine, but you know if I felt like I related to it a lot as well, because you do kind of realize that the life you had before all this happened, it will never be the same, and you have to live in our current moment, with our current reality. I think that's something I've been reticent to accept. So even hearing you say that was powerful for me to hear. If you could go back in time and buy oil before the world relied on it, would you? Of course you would, anybody would, So why aren't you buying silver right now? The people who recognized oil early didn't just make money, They got ahead of one of the biggest economic shifts in history, and today a similar opportunity is unfolding with silver. Silver is more than a precious metal. 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I don't always agree or like it, yes, but. 00:40:01 Speaker 8: You know, I trust him and He's He's putting things in front of me that I need to be open my eyes and be aware of, just as just as this interview today. 00:40:13 Speaker 9: I mean, I've always been a huge turning point. You rsa fan. 00:40:16 Speaker 8: I was a huge Charlie Kirk fan, and just to be able to be on the show and talk and and understand. You know, now, I'm not going to say that my loss is the same as Erica's loss because it's not. 00:40:29 Speaker 9: Hers was a spouse, mine was a child. 00:40:32 Speaker 8: But that doesn't take away from her loss or my loss at all, because loss affects all of us differently, just like grief affects all of us differently. And there's no timeline, there's no instruction, but there's no getting over it. I mean, that's that's that doesn't happen. And and the worst thing someone can see, and I know they're always trying to be nice, is you know how you doing? 00:40:55 Speaker 9: Are you okay? Okay? To me, that's the dumbest question in the world. Don't ever ask me that. 00:41:02 Speaker 8: I'm like, seriously, just I understand you don't know what to say. Just put your hand on my shoulder and pray. I mean, you don't have to you don't have to be Sometimes it's awkward for people. A bunch of my friends even like, we don't know what to say to you. And I said, you don't have to say anything. Just come sit down beside me. That's all you have to say a word. Just your presence tells me. 00:41:26 Speaker 9: You're here for me. 00:41:27 Speaker 8: That's all I need to know. There's no words that are going to make me feel better. There's no words that are going to make Erica feel better. That take that healing, and that feeling better takes happens within us, the person who suffered the tragedy. 00:41:45 Speaker 10: Yes, we we you know. 00:41:47 Speaker 8: I appreciate the condolences and the love and the support throughout the nation, the world, the community, my friends, my family, But you still have to go through the process. 00:41:58 Speaker 9: You still have to greet. 00:42:00 Speaker 8: Then there's five phases and and and they can raise their head at any time, and I can be fine for a week, and then a tsunami of emotion will hit me just instantly. It could be a trigger of a favorite song, or our favorite place, or our favorite food, or just any little memory that can be triggered will force you right back into that flow of emotions. Will basically you lose it. You start crying, and you know, hopefully, you know you're you're in somewhere a safe space, hopefully, But truth of the matter is, you know you don't control this. 00:42:37 Speaker 9: And it's. 00:42:39 Speaker 8: You. You try to learn how to deal with it because you never know when it actually is going to hit. So you just try to, you know, catch your triggers, pray and you know, allow yourself to grieve. Don't try to hold stuff in, let it out. If you don't, I'll tell you, if you keep it inside, it's going to eat you up like cancer, and you're gonna be miserable, and you're gonna be bitter, and you're gonna carry grudges and it's going to affect the way you raise your children, the way your way, the way you talk to your spouse, your boss, everything in life. You'll become a bitter, sour person. And that's not who I want to become. 00:43:24 Speaker 9: And yeah, I'm hurt. Yeah I'll never be the same. 00:43:28 Speaker 8: But I think this also gives me the opportunity to become better, be better than what I ever have been. Now I've got the opportunity to even step up further. Now I've got the opportunity maybe to help other people. Maybe I can go around and speak to people they can actually make a difference. Like and I'm not saying I'm Charnie Kirk, but but along those lines, he went around and spoke and made a difference. 00:43:54 Speaker 9: You know, he was amazing individual. 00:43:58 Speaker 8: I will never compare myself to him, I can only admire from Afar and try to achieve, you know, half the person he ever was. The man was just a walking chat gpt full of knowledge and had words that you you didn't you couldn't go up against. He made too much sense. And that's what's the problem is for the left he made he made common sense. 00:44:21 Speaker 3: That's that's the best I've ever heard it. Actually, Charlie made too much sense. He just made too much sense for them. 00:44:26 Speaker 6: You know. 00:44:27 Speaker 3: And I love what you're talking about though, and I Blake, I want to get you in here, but I just feel like you're talking about. 00:44:34 Speaker 2: This process of becoming. Right. You think about a story, you know. 00:44:40 Speaker 3: Whether it's a movie or a book or whatever, where you know, the character has to become they're put through this trial and they become something different, and you know the character like you think about Jonah and the Whale. Jonah didn't want to go, you know, to Nineveh. He didn't want to know. He ran from God and he became. But God forced him to sort of step into that calling. Eventually he said yes to it. 00:45:05 Speaker 2: And I think out of the boat. 00:45:07 Speaker 9: Yeah, And there's a ton of biblical things and people. 00:45:09 Speaker 8: I mean there's a ton David in the Lion and Peter in the boat, you know, Lazarus back from the dead, you know, Jesus wept. I mean, there's so much things that that's in that in the Bible that, yes, you, I choose to incorporate in my life. Charlie chose to incorporate into his life. Now I'm not I'm not saying other religions are bad or anything. It's just a personal belief and who I want to be and who I want to reach and anyone who has the same belief as me, uh, that I can reach out to, maybe I can help them or help someone in a situation where I can somehow be helpful inspirational guiding. 00:45:47 Speaker 9: You know. 00:45:47 Speaker 8: I don't won't say knowledge, but maybe that you know, gives shared knowledge just so they Maybe if I can reach just one person, it's a success. 00:45:57 Speaker 9: But obviously Charlie reached millions of people. 00:46:01 Speaker 8: If I could do just a quarter of what he ever did, I would be very happy. But you know, I feel parallels along with him, is just wanting to be out there, spread the word, you know, and have a meaningful conversation without insults and hate. 00:46:18 Speaker 9: And threats and violence and things like that. 00:46:21 Speaker 7: Jeff, all of this has been tremendous and credible. 00:46:24 Speaker 4: I want to speak to one specific parallel that exists between you and Erica, which besides that you've lost a loved one, besides that it's a very high profile case, but that it's one that unfortunately we see hateful, gleeful things posted online. We talked about what a lot of supporters of your son's killer were saying online, posting videos, TikTok and. 00:46:53 Speaker 7: All of that, and we see similar things with that. 00:46:56 Speaker 4: Here we had our young Women's leadership event and there was a guy with a big paper mache head of Charlie re enacting his death. We see people post about how happy they are that Charlie's dead to. 00:47:09 Speaker 2: Meet Joseph as women's leaders. 00:47:12 Speaker 4: And on the flip side of this, also, you don't have this as much about the conspiracy theories about it, where they say, actually Erica's not a grieving widow, she's a fake widow. She conspired, she's helping cover up the real killers. But you're the really the closest person we have to someone who's dealt with something of this scale. Do you have a message for Erica, how you would advise, Uh, overcoming the feelings this is going to cause in her, h ignoring it, getting past it, just any thoughts in that vein. 00:47:46 Speaker 8: Now, So for your for your mental health, Uh, you need to stay you need to stay off social media. You just need to stay away from all avenues that want to spew this vile hatred, misinformation, total lies. 00:48:01 Speaker 9: Same exactly. I still to this day, I still get death threats and my family still gets death threats. Now, this is a very small percentage of a certain subcultural demographic that is causing these issues. 00:48:22 Speaker 8: So realistically, if you're looking at the big picture of it, they're really a small portion of people. But they're soulless, they have no moral compass, they don't contribute to society in an effective way. 00:48:39 Speaker 9: All they want to do is obviously they don't have enough life of their. 00:48:42 Speaker 8: Own, but they want to get involved in yours and just few hate based on maybe the color of your skin, and that's it. And there was a man who said, don't judge or judge a man bias character, not by the color of his skin. 00:49:00 Speaker 9: Pretty famous guy. 00:49:01 Speaker 8: And I think that's a great statement because that's the same way I look at people, I. 00:49:05 Speaker 9: Don't judge you by color. I judge you by character. 00:49:09 Speaker 8: And you know, and for those who maybe are younger than me or didn't know who said this, Martin Luther King is the man who made that quote famous, and so like, again, this isn't a race thing, this is a human being thing. Erica's husband was murdered, my son was murdered. Those things are not going to change. To accept to one, To just accept the fact is hard enough because it does seem surreal the first few days it's going on. It like you're in a dream and it's not really happening, but it really is. And you have to figure out how you're going to navigate this one. Get some professional help, find a counselor find a grief group something. 00:50:02 Speaker 9: Just don't isolate. That is the worst thing you can do. 00:50:06 Speaker 8: Get you a support network, learn what you know, Understand what you're going to go through. It's not going to help the pain, but it's gonna help with the understanding, and that's going to help you navigate it. 00:50:21 Speaker 9: It's not going to be easy. It's the hardest thing ever, it's the most painful thing ever. But you have to get through it. 00:50:29 Speaker 8: Because I tell people you never know how strong you are until you have to be, and then you're you can actually surprise yourself. 00:50:40 Speaker 9: Examples. 00:50:41 Speaker 8: Ten years ago, I was diagnosed with stage four cancer and they told me, Jeff, if it gets below your neck, we can't save you. 00:50:47 Speaker 9: You're dead. 00:50:50 Speaker 8: I just got faced with immortality and I have two seven year old boys hugging my legs Yell, yell, and. 00:50:55 Speaker 9: Daddy, Daddy, please don't die. So I had to make mine. 00:51:01 Speaker 8: It's a mindset, and I had to make a mindset of Okay, I am not going to die. And it's the same thing with this situation right now. I am not going to let this beat me. I am going to become something better out of this tragedy. I'm going to create something for other people, hopefully to be better out of this tragedy. And UH, it will carry my son's name on, which is the which is the number one thing that I really want to do, is carry his name on. 00:51:35 Speaker 6: Uh. 00:51:36 Speaker 8: We already have a scholarship set up at the high school for to give an athlete a scholarship, the Austin Metcalf Scholarship. 00:51:43 Speaker 9: Board every year. I'd like to I'd like to increase that I'd like to grow that. 00:51:47 Speaker 8: There's other charities I'd like to be involved in also, and I'd love to I would love to speak and go around and just be able to do that with people and just spread and spread my story and hopefully give people some sort of inspiration or some sort of nugget they can carry on and just improve their life with. Because we're all here for a short period of time, Tomorrow's never promised, as I'm very aware of that now, so live every day with purpose. 00:52:24 Speaker 3: Hi, folks, Andrew Colvett here, I'd like to tell you about my friends over at why Refi. 00:52:29 Speaker 2: You've probably been hearing me talk about why Refi for some time. 00:52:32 Speaker 3: Now. 00:52:33 Speaker 2: We are all in with these guys. 00:52:35 Speaker 3: If you or someone you know is struggling with private student loan debt, take my advice and give them a call. Maybe you're behind on your payments, maybe you're even in default. You don't have to live in this nightmare anymore. Why Refy will provide you a custom payment based on your ability to pay. They tailor each loan individually. They can save you thousands of dollars and you can get your life back. We go to campuses all over American we see student after student who's drowning in private student loan debt. Many of them don't even know how much they owe. Y ref I can help. Just go to wyrefi dot com. That's the letter why then refi dot com. And remember y REFI doesn't care what your credit score is. Just go to wyrefi dot com and tell them your friend Andrews sent you. 00:53:23 Speaker 8: And now I feel like I have a purpose. I had a purpose before, and it was being a foller. I'm still a foller. 00:53:29 Speaker 9: I have one in heaven. I have one still here fixing and go to college. 00:53:33 Speaker 8: So I still have responsibilities to my other side, who's lived through the. 00:53:38 Speaker 9: Most tragic event trauma. I can't even imagine. I can't. I don't have a twin brother, and I sure can't imagine seeing him being murdered and dying in my arms. 00:53:52 Speaker 2: I it's okay, Jeff. You know his. 00:54:10 Speaker 9: Hunter has been put through a lot. I mean, we all have. 00:54:14 Speaker 10: But you know he's my son, and as a parent, you know you always want to protect your kids, and. 00:54:27 Speaker 9: You know the stuff online. And let me say this up front, this goes for both sides, not just my side. I'm gonna make this perfectly clear. 00:54:35 Speaker 8: The stuff that's going on online, the memes, the pictures, the vile comments. Look, they come from the far right too, with pictures of Carmelo's saying very vile things that are gonna. 00:54:45 Speaker 9: Happen to him in prison. I don't condone that. That is not who you need to be. Stop it, please, These are two kids. One's dead. 00:54:59 Speaker 8: And the other one's in so there's no good outcome. There's nothing good about it. And making memes and and and derogatory remarks own dead children are in prison children. 00:55:10 Speaker 9: I'm sorry. You need to You need to check yourself. You need to really look in the mirror and go, wow, what who am I? 00:55:18 Speaker 8: What kind of person am I? And what if you have children? What are you teaching? What are you teaching your children with this behavior. That's what I am so concerned about. Is not just me because I'm not I'm only here for another twenty twenty five years. I'm worried about what's my kids futures? Like, what my kids kids futures are? Like? 00:55:40 Speaker 9: What's what are we? Where are we going to be? Are we gonna be divided? Are we gonna have a race? 00:55:44 Speaker 3: War? 00:55:44 Speaker 9: Are we gonna have a civil war again? We've already had one in this country. 00:55:50 Speaker 8: That's I'm worried about the moral decay of society and where we're taking it and what we're learning to become acceptable. 00:56:01 Speaker 9: Is not acceptable. 00:56:04 Speaker 8: Well, I'm old school, as my kids tell me, Oh, your old school, dad, Yeah, I am. I am old school. I respected my parents. I did not have a sentiment entitlement. I had to work for everything that was given to me. I had rules, responsibilities, chores. My parents instilled discipline in me. You know, if we were inside, we were grounded. We hated being inside. We wanted to be outside. Today's world, I'm not I mean, my generation was the last generation that grew up without cell phones, internet and social media. 00:56:43 Speaker 9: Greatest time in the world to grow up because. 00:56:47 Speaker 8: Now everything's recorded, everything's taped everything. I mean, you have no privacy. 00:56:52 Speaker 9: You cannot do the same things I did when I was a kid. 00:56:58 Speaker 8: But today's today's youth is put under such more scrutiny, more mental health issues. I mean, I honestly believe you know, when we took God out of school, it affected our society. When we started giving people voices and opinions and platforms to say whatever. 00:57:20 Speaker 9: They think, and if they say it loud enough, they think it's right. 00:57:23 Speaker 8: And they in their mind it's a perceived reality and it's not and it's not the truth, but it is their reality. 00:57:32 Speaker 9: That's what they live in. 00:57:34 Speaker 8: And you can see how today has society has been formed. Just to go back fifty years and see how far we've come. Just go back one hundred years and see how far we've come. It's amazing. I mean, America is the greatest country. 00:57:49 Speaker 9: In the world, no doubt about it. But we create our own. 00:57:53 Speaker 8: Problems at the time, from within, from within, the outside factor or not. We need to deal with what's within our borders. We need to deal with the homeless, We need to deal with the veterans, We need to deal with mental health. These are issues. But everyone wants to start, Oh, it's a gun, you know. Oh so guns are bad. No, guns are good. People are bad. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. That's what I tell people. Yes, I'm a Second Amendment person. Yes, I believe in the right. 00:58:25 Speaker 9: I believe in everything. Do I believe in murder? No, it's a crime, it's a law. 00:58:30 Speaker 8: We have to keep our civilized normal society actions. In order you break the law, there are consequences. I told my sons this all the time growing up. You are free in life to make any decisions you own, but you are not free from the consequences. 00:58:48 Speaker 9: So remember that. And this was a perfect example. 00:58:52 Speaker 8: Unfortunately it took it to the extreme in my case, but there are consequences for shoving a knife in someone's stress. Oh, Charlie's cases, that's a slam dump. I mean the man was assassinated as I watched on TV. 00:59:10 Speaker 9: I mean, yeah, there's just something wrong with people. 00:59:15 Speaker 3: Yeah, Jeff, I really appreciate you giving us so much of your time today, And I know God's got big plans for what you're gonna do next and the purpose you're going to live with, And honestly, I'm just I'm really encouraged listening to you because I believe what you said. Erica needs to hear and Robin Catherine need to hear. And there's just very few people that can relate to what they're going through right now, and you're one of them. 00:59:43 Speaker 2: And it's a terrible club. 00:59:46 Speaker 3: For you to be in and for us to sort of be in and membership dudes, Yeah, but we so appreciate you, and I thank you for for making this a priority today. I'm gonna clip this and send it right to Eric so she can watch it tonight. And we just we just really appreciate you. God bless you. 01:00:07 Speaker 2: God really mean that. 01:00:08 Speaker 9: I bless her family. 01:00:09 Speaker 8: And you know you always see now what I told you offline, you can reach out. 01:00:15 Speaker 2: So thanks you too, Jeff. 01:00:17 Speaker 9: Just God bless them, and you know I'll pray for them. 01:00:21 Speaker 2: God bless you. 01:00:22 Speaker 3: Thank you, sir, Jeff Metcalf Austin Metcalf's father. So interesting this time, and yeah, that was powerful just to sit back and listen to. I mean, there's just something about somebody that's been through that process personally and had to had to face so much tragedy and heartache. And I hate to admit I mean, I hate to admit it. I just have to confront the fact that I relate to so much of that and I know you do too, Blake. And we're gonna take a quick break here. I think we're gonna the Court's gonna come back in session at some point, so we're just kind of waiting for that. Maybe if we want to take the rab feed guys for the stream, and Uh. 01:01:03 Speaker 2: They'll be back. We'll be back one their time. 01:01:05 Speaker 4: And I think they go until five you said five Utah time, Yeah, before Pacific or seven Eastern. 01:01:13 Speaker 2: And then we've got a special. We're going to do a recap at the rikap and at the end of the day. 01:01:17 Speaker 4: Uh, and we'll see how far they get because we were speaking with Jay Town earlier and he said, in theory they could get through everything today, but the defense is. 01:01:26 Speaker 2: They're going to drag it'll drag out. So so all right, we'll be back soon, guys. Talk then. 01:01:37 Speaker 7: For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to Charliekirk dot com.