February 27 2019
Series: HEARTBEAT
Speaker: Steve Jeffrey
Date: 26th February 2019
00:00:00 --> 00:00:08 Well, it's great to be with you tonight and to continue to teach.
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 I want to do a bit of a video.
00:00:11 --> 00:00:15 I've been told that I am more friendly on video than I am in person.
00:00:17 --> 00:00:21 So we'll continue that on.
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 It's encouraging me about my gifts and where I'm best suited, I think.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:28 That's all it was.
00:00:30 --> 00:00:39 See, on one level, I feel like I could finish it there, where we are, talking about geese or goose.
00:00:41 --> 00:00:44 But there is more to advance on this.
00:00:44 --> 00:00:52 Really what I just spoke about there, just very, very quickly in five minutes, is really a culture shaper.
00:00:53 --> 00:00:54 That's what that is.
00:00:54 --> 00:01:03 I've just given you an introduction to something that is a culture shaper for us at St. Paul's.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:08 Something that is primarily a pushback against Western culture.
00:01:08 --> 00:01:12 And that is, you are not valued based on what you produce.
00:01:14 --> 00:01:18 Which is one of the major arguments for euthanasia nowadays.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 One of the big supports of euthanasia.
00:01:20 --> 00:01:26 If you no longer enjoy your life and you can no longer produce anything, then you're a drain on society.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:29 And therefore, we should get rid of you.
00:01:29 --> 00:01:32 That's a Western philosophical thought.
00:01:32 --> 00:01:46 So, one of the things that we want to develop more at St. Paul's is a culture that says people over productivity.
00:01:46 --> 00:01:47 We care about people.
00:01:47 --> 00:01:51 We labor in order to reach people.
00:01:51 --> 00:01:54 And yet, the way we reach people matters.
00:01:54 --> 00:01:56 The way we treat people.
00:01:56 --> 00:01:58 The way we love people in the process matters.
00:01:59 --> 00:02:01 So, I want to talk about teams, ministry teams.
00:02:01 --> 00:02:05 I talked about my own joy of being part of a team here at St. Paul's.
00:02:05 --> 00:02:12 I really do have a heart for those who don't exist in a team ministry or don't have a healthy team ministry.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:20 Which, as it turns out, from conversations with Dyson leaders recently, is that is a vast majority.
00:02:20 --> 00:02:27 One of our regional bishops says he spends most of his time dealing with team conflicts within churches.
00:02:30 --> 00:02:31 Teams aren't built overnight.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:36 It takes a long time to develop a group of individuals into a team.
00:02:37 --> 00:02:46 It's much more difficult to know exactly what you need to do to take a group of individuals and turn them into a team.
00:02:46 --> 00:02:53 And most of us sitting here tonight are in a team of some description at St. Paul's.
00:02:55 --> 00:03:01 There are many factors that play part in this complex process of team building.
00:03:02 --> 00:03:03 But there are two main foundations.
00:03:04 --> 00:03:07 I'll spend a fair bit of time on the first one and very quickly on the second one.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:18 Two main foundations that need to be laid before there's any resemblance of being a functional, gospel-centered Christian team.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 And the first foundation is stability.
00:03:23 --> 00:03:24 It's helpful for a foundation.
00:03:25 --> 00:03:27 I like the rectory over there.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:37 Every team member is wondering about the answers to three major questions.
00:03:38 --> 00:03:43 They don't know it, but they've got them subconsciously down there.
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 They're deep questions.
00:03:45 --> 00:03:47 Number one, can I trust you?
00:03:47 --> 00:03:49 Number two, do you care about me?
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 Number three, are you committed to this?
00:03:52 --> 00:03:53 Are you committed to this team?
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 Are you committed to what this team is seeking to do?
00:03:56 --> 00:03:57 Can I trust you?
00:03:57 --> 00:03:58 Do you care about me?
00:03:58 --> 00:03:59 Are you committed to this?
00:04:00 --> 00:04:07 No one wants to be part of a team in which they can't trust the leader or the other members of the team.
00:04:07 --> 00:04:15 They feel that they're not cared for or they know the other members aren't committed to each other or, in fact, to a goal.
00:04:15 --> 00:04:30 So, in order to build stability, you need to show your team your answer to all those three questions is yes, yes, yes.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:36 Without you doing that, you won't build a team, a stable team.
00:04:36 --> 00:04:44 And we answer yes, yes, yes to each one of those questions in every decision we make.
00:04:44 --> 00:04:50 Every decision either reinforces or undermines one of those yeses.
00:04:50 --> 00:04:59 So, the first one is trust.
00:04:59 --> 00:05:00 Can I trust you?
00:05:00 --> 00:05:01 Can I trust you as a team member?
00:05:01 --> 00:05:02 Can I trust you as a team leader?
00:05:03 --> 00:05:08 If people like you, they might listen to you.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:15 But if they trust you, they will partner with you and will potentially even follow you.
00:05:16 --> 00:05:22 You need to show yourself to be a person worthy of trust in order for people to trust you.
00:05:23 --> 00:05:32 You signal that trustworthiness or your lack of it in everything you do, every decision you make.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:38 Now, this probably all seems really obvious.
00:05:38 --> 00:05:41 Of course, we need to trust each other to be a healthy team.
00:05:41 --> 00:05:51 But the truth is, most teams that function together don't actually trust each other because they focus on the wrong kind of trust.
00:05:51 --> 00:06:04 For example, if you say you want the team to arrive on time, you're the leader of the team, you want the team to be prepared,
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 then you, the leader, have to arrive on time and you have to be prepared.
00:06:10 --> 00:06:21 If the vast majority of time you arrive, when you say you will, the team will know that they can trust you in that sense.
00:06:21 --> 00:06:25 And it's called predictive trust.
00:06:26 --> 00:06:28 People know you.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:29 They know what you do.
00:06:30 --> 00:06:31 They know how you behave.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:34 They can predict your behavior.
00:06:34 --> 00:06:35 It's predictive trust.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:41 And predictive trust is a great help when working with a team.
00:06:41 --> 00:06:44 You say what you're going to do and they can predict you're going to follow through with it.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:52 But predictive trust is, if you like, the entry point of trust.
00:06:53 --> 00:06:58 It's not the kind of trust that you need to build the foundations of a great team.
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 You need much more than that.
00:07:00 --> 00:07:09 Predictive trust is, if you like, permission to play kind of trust.
00:07:10 --> 00:07:16 You don't even get to be on the field and play if you can't be predictive in your behavior.
00:07:18 --> 00:07:24 There is a deeper type of trust that's not less than, but it's so much more than predictive trust.
00:07:24 --> 00:07:29 You need the kind of trust that comes from being vulnerable with your team.
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33 Trust is built by vulnerability.
00:07:33 --> 00:07:44 It's where you can admit your mistakes and your weaknesses and be confident that people won't take advantage of it or think any less of you because of it.
00:07:45 --> 00:07:52 One of the great leadership books on how to be a great organization is called The Advantage.
00:07:52 --> 00:07:58 It's written by the same guy who Paul and Rachel, Patrick Lencioni, they've got books from tonight.
00:07:58 --> 00:07:59 So The Advantage, it's a great book.
00:07:59 --> 00:08:11 The main idea of the book is that organizational health, the way that people work together, trumps everything else in an organization.
00:08:11 --> 00:08:18 So organizational health eats strategy and vision for breakfast is basically, it would be my subtitle.
00:08:19 --> 00:08:21 And Lencioni says this about trust.
00:08:21 --> 00:08:34 When everyone on the team knows everyone else is vulnerable enough, that no one is going to hide his or her weaknesses or mistakes, they develop a deep and uncommon sense of trust.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:45 They speak more freely and fearlessly with one another and don't waste time and energy putting on airs and pretending to be someone that they're not.
00:08:45 --> 00:08:55 Predictive trust is certainly necessary for you to work in a group competently.
00:08:56 --> 00:09:00 But being able to work in a team is so much more than just working in a group.
00:09:00 --> 00:09:18 To work in a team, you need to develop weakness-based trust, which is a kind of trust that can be built very quickly and is so much more powerful.
00:09:18 --> 00:09:31 If you're the team leader, so if you're a team leader tonight, you're leading a group of other leaders, a group of other volunteers or members of the church, it starts with you.
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34 Vulnerability starts with you.
00:09:35 --> 00:09:36 You need to go first.
00:09:37 --> 00:09:38 Admit you're human.
00:09:38 --> 00:09:44 Be courageous enough to be weak in front of your team, to be broken in front of your team.
00:09:44 --> 00:09:51 If you don't do it, they never will because they never know whether you're going to leave them high and dry.
00:09:52 --> 00:10:00 They never know whether you're going to come back around somewhere and use your vulnerability in your face.
00:10:01 --> 00:10:09 But if you can model it for them and make sure you encourage them when they do it rather than penalize them,
00:10:09 --> 00:10:17 this trust will grow rapidly as part of the group and it will begin to function as a team.
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 Now, the beauty of it as Christians, and Lencioni is not a Christian,
00:10:23 --> 00:10:30 but the beauty of it as Christians is, well, we have, well, St. Paul's, we have this core value called humble authenticity,
00:10:30 --> 00:10:37 which is all about being real, genuine with our brokenness and our sinfulness.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:48 The gospel is applicable and beautiful because the necessary precondition is that you and I are dysfunctional,
00:10:49 --> 00:10:54 horribly flawed failures, every single one of us.
00:10:54 --> 00:11:02 not one of your critics is correct.
00:11:06 --> 00:11:08 Not one of your critics is correct.
00:11:09 --> 00:11:12 You are way worse than they think you are.
00:11:16 --> 00:11:19 And not one of your supporters is correct.
00:11:21 --> 00:11:23 Because you're way worse than you think you are.
00:11:24 --> 00:11:27 That's the beauty of the gospel.
00:11:28 --> 00:11:31 And the gospel we proclaim here week after week tells us that.
00:11:32 --> 00:11:38 And so it should build a culture of acknowledging what we hold to be true.
00:11:44 --> 00:11:45 That's the first thing.
00:11:46 --> 00:11:46 Trust.
00:11:46 --> 00:11:47 Second, care.
00:11:47 --> 00:11:52 People also want to know whether you care about them or whether you're just using them.
00:11:52 --> 00:11:54 It's not enough for you to care about them.
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 They need to know that you actually do care.
00:11:57 --> 00:11:59 Care is an action word.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 And there are lots of ways you can show people you care.
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 You take the time to get to know the people on your team.
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 You check in with them regularly to see how they're getting on as people,
00:12:07 --> 00:12:08 not just as members of the team.
00:12:09 --> 00:12:12 You're generally thankful for the work that they do for the team.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:17 And you make sure that you tell them that you are thankful for the work that they do as part of the team.
00:12:17 --> 00:12:19 You say that you're sorry when you make a mistake.
00:12:19 --> 00:12:20 You don't blame them for it.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 You take responsibility for it if you're the team leader.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:24 You listen to their ideas.
00:12:25 --> 00:12:26 You give careful feedback.
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 You treat them as partners, not just as helpers.
00:12:29 --> 00:12:30 Filling a gap.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:34 All of these things will communicate that you, in fact, care about them,
00:12:34 --> 00:12:36 not just what they bring to the team.
00:12:37 --> 00:12:42 If you want to build a strong team, people have to know that you care about them
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 and that others on the team care about them as well.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:52 Of course, the stronger and deeper the relationships are between team members,
00:12:52 --> 00:12:54 the better the team actually functions.
00:12:55 --> 00:12:58 The quicker, the better decisions I think they are
00:12:58 --> 00:12:59 and the quicker decisions that they make,
00:13:00 --> 00:13:02 they'll deal with conflicts a whole lot easier.
00:13:02 --> 00:13:09 They'll lead through crises together in a much more unified, stronger, clearer way.
00:13:09 --> 00:13:17 In fact, neuroscience tells us that our brains run on three things.
00:13:17 --> 00:13:21 Oxygen, glucose and relationships.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:24 Now, I'm fully aware of this as a diabetic.
00:13:24 --> 00:13:29 When my sugars get low and I haven't got as much glucose running around in my brain,
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 it's a nice feeling for a little while,
00:13:34 --> 00:13:38 but man, I cannot make a decision to save my life.
00:13:39 --> 00:13:44 American author Henry Cloud recounts, in one of his books,
00:13:44 --> 00:13:47 recounts an experiment that was done with monkeys
00:13:47 --> 00:13:53 to measure the effects of relationships on cortisol levels in their brains.
00:13:53 --> 00:13:59 Now, cortisol is a hormone closely associated with high stress levels.
00:13:59 --> 00:14:03 So in this experiment, they get a monkey, they jam him in a cage,
00:14:03 --> 00:14:08 and they expose the monkey to high levels of psychological stress.
00:14:09 --> 00:14:13 They got loud music and flashing lights, and they go nuts.
00:14:13 --> 00:14:15 And the monkey went nuts.
00:14:15 --> 00:14:16 It freaked him out.
00:14:17 --> 00:14:24 And they measured the levels of stress hormones in the monkey's brain.
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 They recorded it, and then they did it again.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:30 And the only thing they did differently the second time
00:14:30 --> 00:14:34 was they got the monkey's mate, I'm assuming another monkey,
00:14:34 --> 00:14:36 and put him in the cage with the monkey,
00:14:36 --> 00:14:38 and did exactly the same thing.
00:14:39 --> 00:14:42 And as soon as it was over,
00:14:42 --> 00:14:45 they measured the stress hormones in the monkey's brain,
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 and they were exactly 50% less.
00:14:48 --> 00:14:57 That is, this pair of monkeys was twice as good at handling the stress
00:14:57 --> 00:14:59 as the monkey was by itself.
00:15:01 --> 00:15:06 Monkeys' brains, and this is not a lecture in evolution.
00:15:07 --> 00:15:08 I'm not heading in that direction.
00:15:09 --> 00:15:13 But monkeys' brains, it seems, are designed to function in relationships.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16 They are communal animals, and so are owls.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:19 Cloud concludes this.
00:15:21 --> 00:15:25 For research findings about the positive effects of supportive connections
00:15:25 --> 00:15:26 continue to pour in,
00:15:27 --> 00:15:30 and they are equally compelling and conclusive.
00:15:31 --> 00:15:35 Our brains need positive relationships to grow and function well,
00:15:36 --> 00:15:37 whether for monkeys in a cage,
00:15:38 --> 00:15:40 financial wizards on Wall Street,
00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 or your own team members' relationship
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 is the key to high performance.
00:15:46 --> 00:15:51 Thirdly, commitment.
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 People want to know if you're committed to this team,
00:15:56 --> 00:15:59 and what this team's trying to accomplish.
00:15:59 --> 00:16:02 Not just that you're committed for now,
00:16:02 --> 00:16:04 but you're actually committed.
00:16:04 --> 00:16:09 What is it that you will give up for these people,
00:16:09 --> 00:16:13 to invest in these people that you're ministering with?
00:16:14 --> 00:16:17 What will you miss out on for this, for them?
00:16:18 --> 00:16:23 How sick do you need to be in order to skip being with them?
00:16:23 --> 00:16:30 Because if they're going to come with you,
00:16:31 --> 00:16:35 if they're going to miss things,
00:16:35 --> 00:16:36 if they're going to give up things,
00:16:36 --> 00:16:38 if they're going to skip things,
00:16:39 --> 00:16:43 they want to know if you're willing to do the same.
00:16:43 --> 00:16:51 Now, there is a difference between being committed for now and being committed.
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 When you're committed for now,
00:16:54 --> 00:16:58 what you're doing is you're still scanning the horizon for the better opportunity.
00:16:59 --> 00:17:01 You're still scanning for the next step up,
00:17:01 --> 00:17:04 a bigger platform, a more prestigious position.
00:17:04 --> 00:17:07 You're not satisfied with where you are,
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10 and so you're not focused on what you are doing.
00:17:11 --> 00:17:12 You might say that you're committed,
00:17:13 --> 00:17:15 but you're committed just for now.
00:17:17 --> 00:17:21 And if you're really committed to what you're doing,
00:17:22 --> 00:17:24 you'll invest yourself in it.
00:17:27 --> 00:17:28 You'll plant yourself.
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31 You'll put your head down and get on with it.
00:17:31 --> 00:17:35 And so in order to build a team,
00:17:35 --> 00:17:39 which is every team member's responsibility,
00:17:40 --> 00:17:47 you need to show people that they can trust you to be real and to be vulnerable,
00:17:48 --> 00:17:50 that you care about them,
00:17:51 --> 00:17:53 and that you're committed to them.
00:17:54 --> 00:17:57 If you do or say too many things that communicate
00:17:57 --> 00:17:59 that your answer to one of those questions is a no,
00:17:59 --> 00:18:06 you will never succeed in building a team or being part of a strong team,
00:18:07 --> 00:18:08 and you lose.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:10 You lose.
00:18:14 --> 00:18:19 Developing a culture of care, trust, and commitment takes a lot of time.
00:18:20 --> 00:18:21 It starts with the team leader,
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24 but it's the responsibility of every team member.
00:18:24 --> 00:18:26 So speak honestly,
00:18:27 --> 00:18:28 share deeply,
00:18:29 --> 00:18:31 admit mistakes freely,
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 ask for forgiveness quickly,
00:18:34 --> 00:18:41 and verbally reprimand those who ridicule an honest moment,
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 or who break down a group's confidence,
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 and spread information to people that they should not be spreading.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:54 Which is not just bad information,
00:18:54 --> 00:18:58 but any information that they should not be spreading.
00:19:00 --> 00:19:04 It only takes one lapse to destroy months of work in this area.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 Teams are built on stability.
00:19:08 --> 00:19:09 That's the first foundation.
00:19:10 --> 00:19:15 The second foundation for necessary to build teams is time.
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 It takes a lot.
00:19:20 --> 00:19:20 Cool.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:21 Thank you, Steve.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:25 Steve's obviously covered a lot there over the last few minutes.
00:19:25 --> 00:19:28 He has a very good reputation for packing a lot in in a short space of time.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 So I wanted to give people the opportunity to reflect a little bit
00:19:31 --> 00:19:32 and think back to what he was talking through.
00:19:33 --> 00:19:35 One, I guess the importance of people over productivity,
00:19:36 --> 00:19:37 and love as a real culture shaper.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:39 But two, the foundations in team building.
00:19:40 --> 00:19:42 The first foundation we talked about was stability.
00:19:42 --> 00:19:44 Who remembers the three parts to that?
00:19:44 --> 00:19:45 Or at least one of them?
00:19:47 --> 00:19:47 Trust.
00:19:48 --> 00:19:49 Care.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:50 And commitment.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:51 Excellent.
00:19:51 --> 00:19:53 And the second foundation?
00:19:54 --> 00:19:55 It takes time.
00:19:56 --> 00:19:56 Cool.
00:19:56 --> 00:19:57 So think through that.
00:19:57 --> 00:19:59 Have a quick chat to the person next to you,
00:19:59 --> 00:20:00 if you have any questions,
00:20:00 --> 00:20:02 or send them to my mobile phone,
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 which the number I think will appear fairly shortly.
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 And then I'll invite Steve up to answer your questions
00:20:07 --> 00:20:08 in the next 60 seconds or so.
00:20:08 --> 00:20:08 Thank you.
00:20:14 --> 00:20:15 Thank you.
00:20:17 --> 00:20:18 Thank you.
00:20:18 --> 00:20:19 Thank you.
00:20:21 --> 00:20:22 So we might just come back together now
00:20:22 --> 00:20:24 and see whether we have any questions.
00:20:25 --> 00:20:26 I don't have any SMSs,
00:20:26 --> 00:20:28 so I'm assuming that you're all going to put your hand up
00:20:28 --> 00:20:29 and ask questions.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:35 Any questions for Steve?
00:20:35 --> 00:20:36 Thoughts provoked?
00:20:48 --> 00:20:49 Was that a hand, Debbie?
00:20:49 --> 00:20:50 No?
00:20:51 --> 00:20:52 That was a mic.
00:20:52 --> 00:20:52 Okay.
00:20:54 --> 00:20:54 You're loving.
00:20:54 --> 00:20:55 Very good.
00:20:55 --> 00:20:56 Sharing love.
00:20:56 --> 00:20:56 Sharing love.
00:20:56 --> 00:20:56 Sharing love.
00:20:56 --> 00:20:56 Sharing love.
00:20:56 --> 00:20:56 Sharing love.
00:20:56 --> 00:20:59 Sharing love.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:00 Sharing love.
00:21:00 --> 00:21:00 What was that?
00:21:00 --> 00:21:01 Crystal clear?
00:21:06 --> 00:21:07 There's a question from the guy.
00:21:10 --> 00:21:11 I was actually running out of it.
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 I presume the amount of time
00:21:16 --> 00:21:19 is in the nature of the scene,
00:21:19 --> 00:21:20 the purpose of the scene,
00:21:21 --> 00:21:22 the purpose of the scene,
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 the purpose of the scene,
00:21:24 --> 00:21:24 the purpose of the scene,
00:21:24 --> 00:21:25 Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:25 --> 00:21:25 Absolutely.
00:21:27 --> 00:21:31 The reality is to build a team does take time.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:37 One of the real blessings that we've had at St. Paul's
00:21:37 --> 00:21:42 is we've had team members on a staff team level
00:21:42 --> 00:21:45 who have hung around for a while
00:21:45 --> 00:21:48 and we've been able to build.
00:21:48 --> 00:21:49 Now, obviously,
00:21:49 --> 00:21:50 the team building's been happening as part of it,
00:21:50 --> 00:21:53 but the longer they've been there,
00:21:53 --> 00:21:57 the more the teamwork has happened
00:21:57 --> 00:21:58 and the quicker decisions get made
00:21:58 --> 00:21:59 and we flourish
00:21:59 --> 00:22:02 and we really do have a deep sense of commitment
00:22:02 --> 00:22:03 and connection with one another.
00:22:03 --> 00:22:05 But that's a time factor.
00:22:06 --> 00:22:07 Trust takes a while.
00:22:09 --> 00:22:10 Trust is...
00:22:10 --> 00:22:12 So when I...
00:22:12 --> 00:22:13 For instance,
00:22:13 --> 00:22:15 I've been here for nearly 10 years now.
00:22:16 --> 00:22:18 People trust me more now
00:22:18 --> 00:22:20 than when I first arrived.
00:22:21 --> 00:22:22 That's just...
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 And that's partly by virtue of
00:22:24 --> 00:22:26 seeing my life over time,
00:22:27 --> 00:22:30 but also seeing the decisions that are made
00:22:30 --> 00:22:32 and how things are followed through
00:22:32 --> 00:22:33 and stuff like that.
00:22:33 --> 00:22:34 That doesn't mean that
00:22:34 --> 00:22:37 everything's perfect or anything,
00:22:37 --> 00:22:40 but trust is something that's built
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 over a long period of time.
00:22:42 --> 00:22:43 So I'm...
00:22:43 --> 00:22:44 Trust can be lost,
00:22:45 --> 00:22:47 but there's a fair amount of trust
00:22:47 --> 00:22:50 in the bank account at the moment.
00:22:51 --> 00:22:51 So...
00:22:51 --> 00:22:53 And you don't want to squander that.
00:22:53 --> 00:22:55 The way that trust is built, though,
00:22:55 --> 00:22:55 is vulnerability.
00:22:57 --> 00:22:59 And I think this is a crucial thing.
00:22:59 --> 00:23:00 This is where...
00:23:00 --> 00:23:02 You know...
00:23:02 --> 00:23:06 It's unfortunate that in our society nowadays
00:23:06 --> 00:23:07 that Christian churches are not places
00:23:07 --> 00:23:09 where people think that I can trust.
00:23:10 --> 00:23:11 That is horrendous
00:23:11 --> 00:23:12 because it's at the...
00:23:12 --> 00:23:15 Vulnerability is at the foundation of the gospel.
00:23:15 --> 00:23:17 The foundation of the...
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19 And that's where we get our vulnerability from
00:23:19 --> 00:23:20 is...
00:23:20 --> 00:23:23 The only way that I will ever stand up
00:23:23 --> 00:23:24 in front of a group of people
00:23:24 --> 00:23:26 or lead my team in such a way
00:23:26 --> 00:23:27 that I will confess an error
00:23:27 --> 00:23:31 or allow a weakness of mine to be explored
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 is because ultimately
00:23:34 --> 00:23:36 your opinion,
00:23:37 --> 00:23:38 while I value,
00:23:39 --> 00:23:40 I don't live for you.
00:23:41 --> 00:23:42 That is,
00:23:42 --> 00:23:45 while I might have your disapproval
00:23:45 --> 00:23:46 over here
00:23:46 --> 00:23:48 where I need to confess an error,
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 I have an approval over here in Christ
00:23:50 --> 00:23:51 that I will never lose.
00:23:52 --> 00:23:54 So the more we focus on the gospel
00:23:54 --> 00:23:55 and find our assurance
00:23:55 --> 00:23:58 and our security in Christ,
00:23:58 --> 00:24:00 the more willing we will be vulnerable.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:03 Those who are not vulnerable,
00:24:04 --> 00:24:06 my first port of call is
00:24:06 --> 00:24:07 where's your confidence?
00:24:08 --> 00:24:09 Where is your...
00:24:09 --> 00:24:10 Are you concerned about
00:24:10 --> 00:24:12 this person's approval
00:24:12 --> 00:24:14 or that person's approval?
00:24:14 --> 00:24:15 Whereas in a Christian community,
00:24:15 --> 00:24:17 we've got...
00:24:17 --> 00:24:18 With the gospel,
00:24:18 --> 00:24:19 we've got the ultimate acceptance
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21 that can never fail.
00:24:21 --> 00:24:22 It's probably fair to say
00:24:22 --> 00:24:23 that the church is a place
00:24:23 --> 00:24:27 where everybody wants to be seen
00:24:27 --> 00:24:28 and made them
00:24:28 --> 00:24:29 and doing okay.
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31 I wonder...
00:24:31 --> 00:24:33 There's people that want to
00:24:33 --> 00:24:34 do their values
00:24:34 --> 00:24:36 because they want to be
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38 doing that kind of thing.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:38 Absolutely.
00:24:39 --> 00:24:39 Yeah, I think so.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:41 And that's religion
00:24:41 --> 00:24:43 and that's works righteousness
00:24:43 --> 00:24:44 and legalism.
00:24:44 --> 00:24:45 But unfortunately,
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 that is so close to our hearts
00:24:48 --> 00:24:50 that we have this inner nature
00:24:50 --> 00:24:51 to try and...
00:24:52 --> 00:24:52 In fact,
00:24:52 --> 00:24:53 I'm going to be preaching on this
00:24:53 --> 00:24:53 on Sunday
00:24:53 --> 00:24:55 when it comes to confession.
00:24:57 --> 00:24:58 Self-atonement
00:24:58 --> 00:25:00 is so close to our hearts.
00:25:00 --> 00:25:02 We just love to atone for ourselves.
00:25:02 --> 00:25:03 Even in our confession,
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 we confess in a way
00:25:05 --> 00:25:06 that thinks
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 that we can get God's favour.
00:25:09 --> 00:25:09 It's...
00:25:09 --> 00:25:10 Yeah.
00:25:11 --> 00:25:12 I've got a couple of questions here
00:25:12 --> 00:25:12 that have come in.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:14 The first one's very related
00:25:14 --> 00:25:15 to what you've just been speaking about.
00:25:15 --> 00:25:16 But any suggestions
00:25:16 --> 00:25:16 if you're struggling
00:25:16 --> 00:25:17 to build trust with your team?
00:25:18 --> 00:25:18 And it's sometimes tricky
00:25:18 --> 00:25:19 to be vulnerable
00:25:19 --> 00:25:20 if you don't trust each other.
00:25:20 --> 00:25:21 Do you have any really
00:25:21 --> 00:25:22 practical suggestions
00:25:22 --> 00:25:23 as to how to build that trust
00:25:23 --> 00:25:25 and be vulnerable?
00:25:25 --> 00:25:26 If you're the team leader,
00:25:28 --> 00:25:29 there really...
00:25:29 --> 00:25:31 There is only one real source
00:25:31 --> 00:25:32 of vulnerability.
00:25:33 --> 00:25:34 And that is...
00:25:34 --> 00:25:35 Or the ability to be vulnerable
00:25:35 --> 00:25:36 and that is the gospel.
00:25:37 --> 00:25:38 It really is...
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 And I cannot dwell upon that enough.
00:25:41 --> 00:25:42 Put Bible passages
00:25:42 --> 00:25:43 on your computer screen,
00:25:43 --> 00:25:44 you know,
00:25:44 --> 00:25:45 wherever...
00:25:45 --> 00:25:46 On the dashboard of your car,
00:25:46 --> 00:25:47 wherever it is
00:25:47 --> 00:25:48 that you need to put them
00:25:48 --> 00:25:50 that remind you consistently
00:25:50 --> 00:25:51 that because of the Lord Jesus,
00:25:52 --> 00:25:53 what he has done for you,
00:25:53 --> 00:25:54 the Father,
00:25:54 --> 00:25:55 the God of this universe,
00:25:56 --> 00:25:56 says,
00:25:56 --> 00:25:57 My child.
00:25:57 --> 00:25:59 That is a status
00:25:59 --> 00:26:00 that never changes.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03 And until you dwell on that,
00:26:03 --> 00:26:04 you think about that,
00:26:04 --> 00:26:05 you ponder on that,
00:26:05 --> 00:26:06 you meditate on that,
00:26:06 --> 00:26:08 until it drops in the heart
00:26:08 --> 00:26:11 and gives you a security
00:26:11 --> 00:26:16 that is never-ending.
00:26:17 --> 00:26:19 That really is a solution.
00:26:19 --> 00:26:20 That's the first thing.
00:26:20 --> 00:26:20 So,
00:26:20 --> 00:26:22 the gospel is the solution.
00:26:23 --> 00:26:23 Secondly,
00:26:24 --> 00:26:25 go to people
00:26:25 --> 00:26:28 who you do know
00:26:28 --> 00:26:29 and start practicing
00:26:29 --> 00:26:31 vulnerability with them.
00:26:32 --> 00:26:33 That is,
00:26:33 --> 00:26:34 long-term friends,
00:26:34 --> 00:26:35 long-term,
00:26:35 --> 00:26:36 you know,
00:26:36 --> 00:26:38 people who
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 you suspect
00:26:40 --> 00:26:44 you've got a trusting relationship with
00:26:44 --> 00:26:46 and start practicing vulnerability.
00:26:46 --> 00:26:47 start talking about
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 your deepest sins
00:26:50 --> 00:26:51 and issues of your heart,
00:26:51 --> 00:26:52 the things that you're wrestling with.
00:26:54 --> 00:26:55 Another question.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:56 If you have a team
00:26:56 --> 00:26:57 that isn't functioning well,
00:26:57 --> 00:26:58 do you think on all three elements,
00:26:59 --> 00:27:00 do you work on all three elements
00:27:00 --> 00:27:00 of stability
00:27:00 --> 00:27:02 or start with trust?
00:27:02 --> 00:27:08 I would think
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 that you need to start with,
00:27:10 --> 00:27:11 it depends what the issue is.
00:27:11 --> 00:27:11 I mean,
00:27:11 --> 00:27:12 if someone pulls you aside
00:27:12 --> 00:27:13 and your team's not working
00:27:13 --> 00:27:13 and say,
00:27:13 --> 00:27:14 well,
00:27:14 --> 00:27:14 I just can't trust you,
00:27:15 --> 00:27:16 that's probably an indication
00:27:16 --> 00:27:16 you need to work on that one.
00:27:16 --> 00:27:18 But,
00:27:19 --> 00:27:19 certainly,
00:27:20 --> 00:27:21 the care,
00:27:22 --> 00:27:22 and of course,
00:27:22 --> 00:27:23 people might not trust you
00:27:23 --> 00:27:24 because you lack a commitment,
00:27:25 --> 00:27:26 it might just be
00:27:26 --> 00:27:27 what I think
00:27:27 --> 00:27:28 Lindsay only says you do,
00:27:29 --> 00:27:30 is you need to sit down
00:27:30 --> 00:27:31 and you need to have it out
00:27:31 --> 00:27:32 at times.
00:27:32 --> 00:27:33 You need to just sort of
00:27:33 --> 00:27:34 throw everything out there
00:27:34 --> 00:27:34 in the air
00:27:34 --> 00:27:35 and go,
00:27:36 --> 00:27:36 what are the issues?
00:27:36 --> 00:27:37 How do you think we can go better?
00:27:38 --> 00:27:38 But,
00:27:39 --> 00:27:39 I would say,
00:27:40 --> 00:27:41 sit down
00:27:41 --> 00:27:42 with each member
00:27:42 --> 00:27:43 of the team
00:27:43 --> 00:27:43 individually
00:27:43 --> 00:27:45 and ask the question,
00:27:45 --> 00:27:46 how can I lead you better?
00:27:47 --> 00:27:48 That's good advice.
00:27:49 --> 00:27:49 Another one,
00:27:49 --> 00:27:50 back to vulnerability.
00:27:50 --> 00:27:51 Sometimes being vulnerable
00:27:51 --> 00:27:52 can open you up
00:27:52 --> 00:27:53 to being walked over.
00:27:53 --> 00:27:54 Would you advise boundaries
00:27:54 --> 00:27:55 through vulnerability?
00:28:00 --> 00:28:01 Yeah,
00:28:01 --> 00:28:02 I would.
00:28:03 --> 00:28:05 There are some people
00:28:05 --> 00:28:07 who I won't be,
00:28:07 --> 00:28:08 I won't be specifically
00:28:08 --> 00:28:10 individually vulnerable with.
00:28:11 --> 00:28:11 So,
00:28:11 --> 00:28:12 for instance,
00:28:12 --> 00:28:13 I haven't got up
00:28:13 --> 00:28:14 in front of church
00:28:14 --> 00:28:14 ever
00:28:14 --> 00:28:15 and told you
00:28:15 --> 00:28:16 the blackness
00:28:16 --> 00:28:17 in my heart.
00:28:17 --> 00:28:17 I've never,
00:28:18 --> 00:28:18 you know,
00:28:18 --> 00:28:19 I've never said,
00:28:19 --> 00:28:19 got up there
00:28:19 --> 00:28:20 and let me confess sins
00:28:20 --> 00:28:22 and here's the list
00:28:22 --> 00:28:23 and here's the really
00:28:23 --> 00:28:24 terrible stuff.
00:28:25 --> 00:28:26 That's reserved
00:28:26 --> 00:28:27 for
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30 four people
00:28:30 --> 00:28:30 in my life
00:28:30 --> 00:28:33 who I know
00:28:33 --> 00:28:34 are not going to
00:28:34 --> 00:28:35 pin me to a pegboard
00:28:35 --> 00:28:37 when I share
00:28:37 --> 00:28:38 that stuff with them.
00:28:38 --> 00:28:38 I know they're going
00:28:38 --> 00:28:39 to pray for me,
00:28:39 --> 00:28:39 they love me,
00:28:40 --> 00:28:40 they're committed to me.
00:28:41 --> 00:28:41 So,
00:28:41 --> 00:28:43 four people in my life,
00:28:43 --> 00:28:44 I regularly keep
00:28:44 --> 00:28:44 accountable on that.
00:28:44 --> 00:28:45 So,
00:28:45 --> 00:28:46 there are varying
00:28:46 --> 00:28:47 levels of vulnerability.
00:28:48 --> 00:28:49 But I will share
00:28:49 --> 00:28:50 with the church
00:28:50 --> 00:28:52 that I'm not a perfect husband,
00:28:52 --> 00:28:53 I'm not a great dad,
00:28:54 --> 00:28:55 a whole range of things
00:28:55 --> 00:28:56 that I fail in.
00:28:57 --> 00:28:57 I have,
00:28:58 --> 00:28:59 the thing that's amazed me
00:28:59 --> 00:29:00 in terms of the team
00:29:00 --> 00:29:01 at St. Paul's
00:29:01 --> 00:29:02 being with me
00:29:02 --> 00:29:03 for so long
00:29:03 --> 00:29:04 is that
00:29:04 --> 00:29:06 they've been with me
00:29:06 --> 00:29:07 for so long.
00:29:07 --> 00:29:08 I think that's incredible.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:08 Like,
00:29:08 --> 00:29:09 anyone who's lasted
00:29:09 --> 00:29:10 10 years
00:29:10 --> 00:29:11 with me
00:29:11 --> 00:29:14 because they've seen me
00:29:14 --> 00:29:15 change,
00:29:15 --> 00:29:16 they've seen the mistakes
00:29:16 --> 00:29:16 I've made,
00:29:17 --> 00:29:17 they've seen the things
00:29:17 --> 00:29:18 I've changed in,
00:29:18 --> 00:29:19 they've seen the failures,
00:29:19 --> 00:29:19 the faults,
00:29:20 --> 00:29:20 they've seen,
00:29:20 --> 00:29:21 you know,
00:29:21 --> 00:29:22 my incompetence
00:29:22 --> 00:29:23 and that sort of thing.
00:29:25 --> 00:29:26 And yet,
00:29:26 --> 00:29:28 they're still there.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:29 So,
00:29:30 --> 00:29:30 it's,
00:29:31 --> 00:29:32 there is a level,
00:29:32 --> 00:29:33 I think,
00:29:34 --> 00:29:35 of who you share
00:29:35 --> 00:29:35 what with,
00:29:35 --> 00:29:36 but you should know
00:29:36 --> 00:29:37 that.
00:29:37 --> 00:29:38 Some people are
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 chronic oversharers
00:29:40 --> 00:29:42 and that's not
00:29:42 --> 00:29:42 particularly helpful.
00:29:43 --> 00:29:44 I guess the challenge
00:29:44 --> 00:29:44 for many people
00:29:44 --> 00:29:45 in that fear
00:29:45 --> 00:29:46 is how's the person
00:29:46 --> 00:29:47 going to reciprocate
00:29:47 --> 00:29:47 at the other end
00:29:47 --> 00:29:48 and the question
00:29:48 --> 00:29:49 along those lines,
00:29:49 --> 00:29:50 what if you're vulnerable
00:29:50 --> 00:29:50 and open with someone
00:29:50 --> 00:29:52 and they don't reciprocate
00:29:52 --> 00:29:53 or it ends up
00:29:53 --> 00:29:54 hurting you more?
00:29:54 --> 00:29:55 Okay.
00:29:56 --> 00:29:57 The idea of vulnerability
00:29:57 --> 00:29:58 is they don't have
00:29:58 --> 00:29:59 to reciprocate.
00:29:59 --> 00:29:59 I don't think
00:29:59 --> 00:30:00 vulnerability
00:30:00 --> 00:30:01 on your behalf
00:30:01 --> 00:30:02 means they're going
00:30:02 --> 00:30:02 to reciprocate.
00:30:03 --> 00:30:03 So,
00:30:04 --> 00:30:04 for instance,
00:30:04 --> 00:30:07 one of the key things
00:30:07 --> 00:30:08 for me
00:30:08 --> 00:30:09 in raising my girls
00:30:09 --> 00:30:10 is that I,
00:30:10 --> 00:30:11 it's my job
00:30:11 --> 00:30:11 to lead them
00:30:11 --> 00:30:12 by being vulnerable
00:30:12 --> 00:30:13 to them.
00:30:14 --> 00:30:14 I,
00:30:14 --> 00:30:16 I will
00:30:16 --> 00:30:17 endeavour
00:30:17 --> 00:30:19 in every instance
00:30:19 --> 00:30:20 to be the first person,
00:30:20 --> 00:30:21 if I've had a,
00:30:22 --> 00:30:22 you know,
00:30:22 --> 00:30:24 a bust up with them
00:30:24 --> 00:30:25 in some kind of way,
00:30:25 --> 00:30:26 I will endeavour
00:30:26 --> 00:30:27 to be the first person
00:30:27 --> 00:30:28 to speak to them
00:30:28 --> 00:30:29 about my failure.
00:30:29 --> 00:30:30 I won't wait for them.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:31 And while
00:30:31 --> 00:30:32 they might have been
00:30:32 --> 00:30:33 the ones who
00:30:33 --> 00:30:34 started it,
00:30:34 --> 00:30:35 continued it,
00:30:35 --> 00:30:36 and I came in
00:30:36 --> 00:30:36 at the last minute
00:30:36 --> 00:30:37 and,
00:30:37 --> 00:30:37 you know,
00:30:37 --> 00:30:37 did something
00:30:37 --> 00:30:38 I shouldn't have done
00:30:38 --> 00:30:39 and overreacted,
00:30:39 --> 00:30:40 I will apologise
00:30:40 --> 00:30:42 for my overreaction
00:30:42 --> 00:30:43 and sit down
00:30:43 --> 00:30:44 and often we tears
00:30:44 --> 00:30:45 and say,
00:30:45 --> 00:30:45 you know,
00:30:45 --> 00:30:46 I'm really deeply
00:30:46 --> 00:30:47 sorry for the hurt.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:48 That is,
00:30:48 --> 00:30:48 I'm vulnerable
00:30:48 --> 00:30:49 that moment.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:49 And what they do
00:30:49 --> 00:30:50 in the inevitably
00:30:50 --> 00:30:50 that moment
00:30:50 --> 00:30:51 is they come up,
00:30:51 --> 00:30:51 Daddy,
00:30:51 --> 00:30:51 it's a fine,
00:30:52 --> 00:30:52 you know,
00:30:52 --> 00:30:53 I forgive you.
00:30:53 --> 00:30:53 And it's like,
00:30:53 --> 00:30:55 but they haven't,
00:30:55 --> 00:30:56 they haven't shared
00:30:56 --> 00:30:56 their own failures
00:30:56 --> 00:30:57 at that point.
00:30:58 --> 00:30:58 I think that's the,
00:30:59 --> 00:30:59 the idea,
00:30:59 --> 00:31:00 the deeper and more
00:31:00 --> 00:31:01 confident you are
00:31:01 --> 00:31:02 in the gospel,
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 the more you are
00:31:04 --> 00:31:05 prepared to be
00:31:05 --> 00:31:05 vulnerable
00:31:05 --> 00:31:06 without it being
00:31:06 --> 00:31:07 reciprocated.
00:31:07 --> 00:31:07 I don't think
00:31:07 --> 00:31:08 it needs to be
00:31:08 --> 00:31:08 reciprocated.
00:31:10 --> 00:31:10 I've got one more
00:31:10 --> 00:31:11 question here,
00:31:11 --> 00:31:11 but are there any
00:31:11 --> 00:31:11 more questions
00:31:11 --> 00:31:12 from the floor
00:31:12 --> 00:31:12 first?
00:31:14 --> 00:31:15 And there's always
00:31:15 --> 00:31:16 a danger
00:31:16 --> 00:31:17 that people will
00:31:17 --> 00:31:17 hang you out
00:31:17 --> 00:31:18 to dry for it.
00:31:19 --> 00:31:19 There's always
00:31:19 --> 00:31:20 a danger of that,
00:31:20 --> 00:31:21 but God never will.
00:31:22 --> 00:31:23 That's more precious.
00:31:23 --> 00:31:24 That's true.
00:31:25 --> 00:31:26 So,
00:31:26 --> 00:31:26 last question here.
00:31:27 --> 00:31:28 Face is an
00:31:28 --> 00:31:28 important concept
00:31:28 --> 00:31:29 to many Chinese
00:31:29 --> 00:31:29 people.
00:31:29 --> 00:31:30 If vulnerability
00:31:30 --> 00:31:30 is important
00:31:30 --> 00:31:31 to build up
00:31:31 --> 00:31:31 teams,
00:31:32 --> 00:31:32 then what would
00:31:32 --> 00:31:33 be your advice?
00:31:34 --> 00:31:35 Understand the
00:31:35 --> 00:31:35 gospel.
00:31:37 --> 00:31:38 That is,
00:31:39 --> 00:31:40 the idea
00:31:40 --> 00:31:41 of saving
00:31:41 --> 00:31:41 face
00:31:41 --> 00:31:43 is an
00:31:43 --> 00:31:44 anti-gospel
00:31:44 --> 00:31:45 cultural thing
00:31:45 --> 00:31:45 that needs
00:31:45 --> 00:31:46 to be reformed.
00:31:48 --> 00:31:49 That's all I can
00:31:49 --> 00:31:49 say.
00:31:49 --> 00:31:50 It is
00:31:50 --> 00:31:51 anti-gospel.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:53 it's not
00:31:53 --> 00:31:53 Christian.
00:31:53 --> 00:31:54 It's a cultural
00:31:54 --> 00:31:54 thing.
00:31:55 --> 00:31:56 And in a
00:31:56 --> 00:31:56 trans-cultural
00:31:56 --> 00:31:57 church,
00:31:57 --> 00:31:58 we are seeking
00:31:58 --> 00:31:58 to have our
00:31:58 --> 00:31:59 cultures reformed.
00:31:59 --> 00:32:00 And that's a
00:32:00 --> 00:32:01 cultural practice.
00:32:03 --> 00:32:04 I think,
00:32:04 --> 00:32:06 I read this
00:32:06 --> 00:32:06 once,
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 that it is
00:32:09 --> 00:32:10 normal to
00:32:10 --> 00:32:10 grow up
00:32:10 --> 00:32:12 in an Asian
00:32:12 --> 00:32:14 family and
00:32:14 --> 00:32:16 never have a
00:32:16 --> 00:32:16 parent say to
00:32:16 --> 00:32:17 you,
00:32:17 --> 00:32:17 I'm sorry.
00:32:18 --> 00:32:19 I just feel
00:32:19 --> 00:32:20 for a whole
00:32:20 --> 00:32:21 generation of
00:32:21 --> 00:32:21 kids who
00:32:21 --> 00:32:21 have not
00:32:21 --> 00:32:22 experienced
00:32:22 --> 00:32:22 what it
00:32:22 --> 00:32:23 means to
00:32:23 --> 00:32:23 have a
00:32:23 --> 00:32:24 parent say,
00:32:24 --> 00:32:25 I'm sorry.
00:32:25 --> 00:32:27 The gospel
00:32:27 --> 00:32:28 changes that.
00:32:28 --> 00:32:28 The gospel
00:32:28 --> 00:32:29 leads us to
00:32:29 --> 00:32:30 repentance and
00:32:30 --> 00:32:30 confession.
00:32:31 --> 00:32:31 So it
00:32:31 --> 00:32:32 needs to be
00:32:32 --> 00:32:32 reformed.
00:32:32 --> 00:32:33 Thank you.