Episode 240: Stop Calling Me Beautiful: Phylicia Masonheimer

[00:00:00] We have to remember that what we want is not what is best for us. And God wants us to move beyond

[00:00:09] what's easy and natural and convenient to what is necessary for our spiritual growth.

[00:00:24] Hello and welcome to Candid where we never settle for less than the truth.

[00:00:28] I'm your host Jonathan Youssef. Each week we'll tackle tough issues, answer your hard questions

[00:00:34] and take a candid look at the Christian faith. If you've been enjoying the podcast, would you take

[00:00:40] a minute and log onto your favorite podcast platform? Rate us and leave us a review. It would be

[00:00:47] a tremendous help and it does allow others to find us easily. Today my guest is Felicia Mason-Himer

[00:00:54] She is a writer, speaker, podcast host and founder of her ministry Every Woman of theologian.

[00:01:02] Her hardest to teach women the history and the depth of the Christian faith and the why

[00:01:08] behind the Bible. Her social media and blog cover topics ranging from sexuality to motherhood

[00:01:14] to Bible study and faith in seasons of grief and loss. Felicia has a bachelor of science and

[00:01:20] religion and has written multiple books including Every Woman of theologian. Know what you believe,

[00:01:26] live it confidently, communicate it graciously and her other book stop calling the beautiful,

[00:01:32] finding soul deep strength in a skin deep world. I love that title. She's married to her husband

[00:01:38] Josh and together they have three children Adeline Geneva and Ivan and they live on a farm in Northern

[00:01:45] Michigan. Felicia, thank you so much for taking the time to be on candid conversations.

[00:01:51] Thank you for having me. For those listeners who haven't read your books or aren't familiar with

[00:01:56] your ministry tell us a little bit about yourself, your story growing up. It sounds like you came

[00:02:02] out of legalism walk us through a little bit of that if you don't mind. Yeah sure so I wasn't raised

[00:02:08] in legalism. I would say I was legalism adjacent so my parents were not legalistic or putting us

[00:02:16] in a legalistic environment or churches but the culture in which I lived as a midwestern

[00:02:25] Christian kid at the height of purity culture in the 90s really kind of facilitated

[00:02:32] the environment where I was exposed to those kinds of things so though my home didn't have

[00:02:38] these teachings a lot of my friends were receiving these teachings in their home and so I was

[00:02:45] learning about things like you know super strict modesty standards or really strict dating and

[00:02:53] relationship ideals from the books I was reading the culture I was in the friends that I had.

[00:02:59] And I think you can't help but absorb those things. So as I got older as I went on to college

[00:03:07] began studying religion it was a lot of sifting that had to happen and go well how much of this

[00:03:13] is actually biblical and how much of this was actually cultural especially as I watched so many

[00:03:20] of those peers walk away from the faith and you know that forced me to ask why do I still believe

[00:03:26] this and how can I share with others who might be on this journey how they can do that same sifting.

[00:03:34] Yeah a friend of mine ginger of wollo calls it disentangling you know she kind of grew up through

[00:03:41] gothard in the iblp movement and certainly purity culture and a lot of that have elements

[00:03:47] of truth but it's the application of those things right and what are the outcomes and what are

[00:03:52] the methodologies that are utilized in that and it sounds like that sort of similar to what you

[00:03:59] were navigating tell us a little bit about every woman of the allogen what a title yeah walk us

[00:04:06] through the concept of you know the birthdall of that. So I've been doing a form of part-time

[00:04:13] ministry for almost a decade now I started out as a blogger and I was mainly writing about Christian

[00:04:19] sexuality and purity culture to girls who had grown up in severe legalism. I felt a burden on my

[00:04:26] heart for these women because I watched as they were getting married and running into so much guilt

[00:04:34] and shame and confusion over marriage and sexuality because of what they were taught when they were

[00:04:40] single and dating and so most of what I wrote was on those topics at the time but eventually I started

[00:04:46] to realize that in order for me to speak to biblical sexuality I had to know without a shadow of a

[00:04:53] doubt that the text the Bible that I was working from was true and was accurate. And I had really never

[00:05:00] examined you know where the Bible came from or why I believed it I just knew that it was what it

[00:05:08] was it's God's word and so I started to work backwards. Yeah. Theologically from teaching and

[00:05:14] talking about sexuality to using my religion degree to say okay well this is why we can trust

[00:05:21] God on sexuality. This is the theology underpinning this and so it went from this really narrow focus

[00:05:27] to become broader and broader and broader until I was speaking to a variety of theological topics

[00:05:34] not as an expert but as someone who was sourcing scholars and commentators and pastors

[00:05:40] and using that information to teach and so over time that eventually became every woman at the

[00:05:46] ologian. So we now have a team of about seven or eight employees and team members who help us

[00:05:53] create resources about things like baptism and fasting and the Trinity and you know how to walk out

[00:06:01] your faith and one of our distinctives is that we try our best to share multiple views within

[00:06:07] Christianity. So we try to present the different ways denominations look at these things and then

[00:06:12] allow people to continue their study on their own. That's great. Let's go back a second to where we

[00:06:18] started and then you brought back up even in your attempt to answer those things which is navigating

[00:06:25] for women who are coming out of that world of legalism and purity culture, fill that picture out

[00:06:32] a little bit more for us and then sort of how you kind of stepped into that field.

[00:06:37] And specifically talking to women who are in legalism? What was it that you were seeing

[00:06:43] and the outcomes of those things that kind of drove you into wanting to give helpful answers?

[00:06:50] Got it, okay. So I was seeing a lot of women who are coming out of purity legalistic rules,

[00:06:59] heavy cultures, quote unquote Christian cultures. I think we can all say that most of what's taught

[00:07:05] there is not true to biblical Christianity. So I hesitate to call it truly Christian but they're

[00:07:11] in these environments. They're coming out of it and they're coming out with a view of God

[00:07:16] that is not accurate to what Scripture teaches. And that's really the worst part of legalism and why

[00:07:23] legalism is not true Christianity. It's because it twists the nature of God and it turns salvation into

[00:07:30] a performative thing. So you have to do X, Y and Z to either keep your salvation or earn your

[00:07:38] salvation. And it's no longer that holiness is a response to grace but that holiness is how I

[00:07:45] stay in grace. And that difference is really nuanced and very slight and a lot of people don't

[00:07:52] know that they're falling into it because they're being taught by people that they trust.

[00:07:57] Such as in instances of Bill gothard and others like him. And so when I was writing,

[00:08:02] I was trying to help women see that God's goodness and God's kindness are the basis of salvation

[00:08:10] and they're the basis of holiness and that we weren't trying to throw out purity but that we were

[00:08:16] pursuing purity from the right foundation. And so that's why we have to look at the goodness of God,

[00:08:23] the love of God, the affection of God, the favor of God that is given to us in Christ and proceed

[00:08:29] forward from there. People today really don't enjoy the term deconstruction but it's a deconstruction

[00:08:35] in the way Jesus did it where he brings things back to the basics, the fundamentals, the truth of

[00:08:40] Scripture, and rebuilds from there. So we're not just walking away and never rebuilding, but rebuilding

[00:08:46] reconstructing from that firm foundation of the truth of God's love as the basis for the gospel.

[00:08:53] Right on, you're hitting it right on the head even as a preacher I feel it's such an easy thing

[00:09:01] to lean into a works righteousness, to lean into actions oriented motif rather than constantly

[00:09:09] falling back on grace. You feel like, oh we've done this enough now people need to go out and do

[00:09:14] things. There's a sense in that there's a work that Christ has called people to and they're

[00:09:18] living that out, but it's always in response to grace as you've said and not my motivations and my

[00:09:25] actions control my relationship with the Lord. Right once I've been saved in him I'm safe and

[00:09:32] insecure in his hands and so now I can operate out of that security and that safety rather than out

[00:09:37] of a fear of losing my salvation. Again, it goes back to works based salvation and works based righteousness.

[00:09:45] I think that's right on. Okay, so you have women who are coming out of this culture and your

[00:09:51] proclivity is towards them. You're equipping them with sound resources. I want to come to the title

[00:09:57] of your book stop calling me beautiful. What was it that you were seeing that was leaning heavily into

[00:10:03] that, you know, the borrowed language that you use? I know in the book you kind of talk about

[00:10:09] your beautiful daughter of the most high king and it is true, but it's not the whole truth.

[00:10:14] So kind of walk us through a little bit of that as well.

[00:10:17] Yeah, so on the other end of this spectrum from legalism we have this really light, fluffy feel

[00:10:25] good teaching that's being marketed primarily to women. Now I think that it's definitely marketed

[00:10:31] to men too, but for women it's kind of shrouded in this identity message like women can't handle

[00:10:39] true biblical teaching. It's too boring to them or it's too heady for them or it's too theological

[00:10:44] for them. So we're going to instead give them these really topical books. These really light books

[00:10:50] about how to improve their life or to become a better person or a better mom and we never actually

[00:10:55] get down to the crux of the problem which is the integration of the gospel into their life.

[00:11:01] Right, right. Women spend 5, 10, 15, 20 years calling themselves a Christian even going to church

[00:11:09] every Sunday but never actually experiencing the freedom of the gospel in their lives that

[00:11:14] Christ could actually change their life and free them from the things that they're experiencing.

[00:11:21] And so because of how we are preaching this message this, oh you're just a beautiful daughter

[00:11:26] of the king. That's it. No like compelling gospel, no freedom, no life transformation.

[00:11:32] That's why the book is called Stop Calling Me Beautiful. Basically stop selling me short. Stop

[00:11:37] saying that I as a woman am only smart enough for these watered down messages because women are

[00:11:44] ready for theology. I would argue scripture even compels us to teach them theology. I think that was

[00:11:52] the crux of what the Apostle Paul was saying when he said let the women learn quietly at home,

[00:11:57] he was saying let the women learn and we miss that in the whole debate around that passage.

[00:12:01] And so when we skip over women and we're like oh they they're not interested in theology,

[00:12:08] they won't need it. We're actually completely undercutting the spiritual growth of half the church.

[00:12:14] And most women really want to grow, they're just being given materials that are really shallow.

[00:12:20] And so that's changing thankfully in the last 10 years I think that's changed

[00:12:24] astronomically since I wrote that book even and so it really was a popular book for that reason

[00:12:30] because I think women were like yes this is what I want.

[00:12:35] Do you find that that mentality is coming from men or women or both?

[00:12:41] I actually find that it comes more from women than it does from men. Many men that I know are either

[00:12:48] very anti-women learning at all and I would say that's the minority in my experience actually

[00:12:56] in the larger denominational landscape. And then the rest of the men are actually very pro

[00:13:04] women learning, pastors especially want to see women discipling in their church they know

[00:13:10] that men can't do it by themselves. And so in my experience it's actually women who I get the

[00:13:16] most pushback from when it comes to women learning theology and most of the time what they say to me is

[00:13:23] that's just not interesting or that's just not relevant or that's boring and it's because they have

[00:13:30] not yet learned one that they're capable to that they're called. And three that Christ wants to

[00:13:38] use them to impact other women their disciples makers and men you know. Otherwise if it's the man

[00:13:47] is the spiritual head of the household and he has no help mate. And that includes teaching and

[00:13:52] preparing and children other women expanding are the men left to carry it all on their own. I mean

[00:13:59] it's there's roles and responsibility that the Lord gives but I think you're right it's why would

[00:14:04] the Lord give the revealed word of God only to men? It doesn't make sense when scripture itself

[00:14:11] elevates women more than any other you know ancient texts. Yes I think this is such an important

[00:14:18] thing so that you have the light and airy and then you have the legalism kind of as you kind of

[00:14:24] put them in polar contrast to some degree what about when it comes to just bad theology? Now obviously

[00:14:32] this is not a category solely for women men have plenty of bad theology we can cite but in terms of

[00:14:39] what's available to people how would you you know kind of put ratios or percentages on what's

[00:14:44] out there for people is it is it mostly the light and airy? Is it some bad stuff?

[00:14:49] It's hard to say because it really depends on where somebody's circle of influence is so your

[00:14:56] denominational affiliation is going to really affect the resources that you're exposed to so I would

[00:15:02] find in most reformed traditions the women and men and reformed traditions have access to a broader

[00:15:08] range of deeper theological works whereas people who are raised in charismatic traditions often

[00:15:15] have theological works available but they concentrate on only portions of that theology so they might

[00:15:23] emphasize spiritual gifts or emphasize the relationship of the soul and spirit but they're not

[00:15:28] actually being taught a theology of the gospel or salvation or justification or things like that

[00:15:33] so it really depends on your denominational tradition in terms of what you're being exposed to

[00:15:39] it could be you're exposed to a really heavy-handed legalistic theology or maybe a really light and

[00:15:44] airy fluffy theology however the broader market the Christian like publishing world and the amount

[00:15:52] of trade books that are being marketed specifically to Christian women and we know from marketing

[00:15:56] business that women are the primary buyers they're the ones that are making a lot of those decisions

[00:16:02] a lot of those books tend to be very light or very lightly written so they want you to carry the

[00:16:12] message forward with lots of story and lots of relational stuff because they say this is what

[00:16:20] women want and that's true that's what many women want but at some point there you go you know

[00:16:26] like it's what the people want sometimes though we have to remember that what we want is not what

[00:16:32] is best for us yeah and god wants us to move beyond what's easy and natural and convenient

[00:16:42] to what is necessary for our spiritual growth and I always tell people this doesn't mean that you're

[00:16:48] sitting there with a systematic theology as thick as you know a couple of bricks sitting on your coffee

[00:16:55] with words you don't know and etc. right just means if a theologian is someone who is a student

[00:17:01] of the heart of god it means that you take seriously your spiritual and intellectual growth

[00:17:06] and that you facilitate that in the way that works for your season yeah as we sort of thinking about

[00:17:13] the equipping of the lay person and this can be men and women to feed themselves instead of

[00:17:20] just relying on the sort of Sunday service and the pastor which I would say is probably the primary

[00:17:26] means but what are the other avenues that you suggest for people I would assume reading of good books

[00:17:33] is probably at the top of that list but what are there other avenues that you recommend we're on a

[00:17:38] podcast right now gotta be in there somewhere right yeah well a visual for people I like to give

[00:17:44] is I so I have three kids my youngest is a boy I have two girls and then a boy and anyone who's had

[00:17:50] girls and then a boy can tell you that if you're not careful the girls will just mother this little boy

[00:17:55] and he you know it's like okay here's our little boy who can't do anything for himself because he's

[00:18:00] got three moms and when he was about a year old he'd been feeding himself for a couple of months

[00:18:05] and his sister started to think that it was the most fun thing ever to spoon feed him so they

[00:18:10] started spoon feeding him and he stopped feeding himself and he would sit there with his mouth open waiting

[00:18:17] for you to feed him and we were like no you are perfectly capable of feeding yourself you actually

[00:18:22] lost the ability to feed yourself you've been spoon fed by these lovely sisters viewers and I

[00:18:29] think that's how a lot of Christians are they sit there they come to church and they sit there

[00:18:34] with their mouths open for the pastor to spoon feed them once a week when the pastor is saying no this

[00:18:39] is just me giving you this encouragement and equipping so you can go out and feed yourself later in

[00:18:44] the week and they end up I think it's a crazy cycle of ministry burnout for pastors and also

[00:18:51] lack of spiritual growth in the congregation and we as an organization see ourselves as coming

[00:18:56] alongside the local church to support what pastors and ministry leaders are doing week to week not

[00:19:04] replacing that but supporting it so when somebody is like well where do I begin how do I feed myself

[00:19:09] I always say yes reading good books is great but if you're only reading books and you're never

[00:19:13] reading the Bible because you still think that the Bible is too boring for you we want to back up

[00:19:18] and start there so let's figure out how to equip you to read the Bible on your own so that you

[00:19:25] can rightly divide it and then our next step is really pushing them towards spiritual disciplines of

[00:19:31] things like prayer and fasting meditating on the word memorizing scripture we want to see people

[00:19:37] there first even if that means they're not buying our resources I have resources on those things

[00:19:43] to help them learn but we want people doing these things because historically in the last 2000

[00:19:50] years that is what the church has done to grow so we could give you a list of all the best theology

[00:19:56] books on the market today but it's going to be far more effective if you are actually in the word

[00:20:01] and in prayer because that's all those theology books are going to tell you to do they are always

[00:20:05] secondary to the primary source you do an incredible job of using your social media platforms to

[00:20:13] provide everyone with a glimpse of daily life showing your audience how you balance your family life

[00:20:21] your ministry the raising and discipling of your children you and your husband homeschool your kids

[00:20:27] you do ministry together you run a family farm I'm already tired just getting through these I mean

[00:20:34] it's quite a lot you know you're intentional with how you use and spend your time and I think

[00:20:40] everyone would say this is probably one of their greatest challenges and struggles is time

[00:20:46] management how do I find balance husband and wife with children ministry church vocation whatever

[00:20:56] it is how do the Mason-Himers do it is there a key do you have a book that tells us how to do it

[00:21:01] I don't have a book of the Bible right now that I was telling you how to do that but I mean it is

[00:21:07] a lot and we do get very tired sometimes some of it is you know choices that we've made like having

[00:21:13] animals in a garden in a very small farm that's a choice that we make to make apparently our lives

[00:21:18] more busy but other things you know discipling our children and choosing to home educate them

[00:21:25] and running the ministry together these are things that God has called us to do and so he gives

[00:21:31] the grace for what he has asked you to do and sometimes it's still very tiring but I will say that

[00:21:37] the biggest thing that enables us to be able to handle the weight of being involved in church

[00:21:46] and having really deep thriving friendships leading a ministry and a team and homeschooling

[00:21:54] and enjoying our family is margin and our schedule we intentionally reject the American standard

[00:22:03] when it comes to the calendar and that's really hard to do it's super hard there's so many good

[00:22:09] opportunities but we have found that if we can you explain that yeah so most American families are

[00:22:17] expected to commit to countless sports extracurricular activities groups clubs you know every church

[00:22:26] event that's on the calendar in order to give our kids a good childhood and I say that in quotes

[00:22:31] sure yeah we believe that a truly sweet childhood includes sports sure but it more includes

[00:22:42] quality time with their friends their family freedom to explore nature to explore what they enjoy

[00:22:49] so we live a slower life in terms of what we commit to so we can give our time to ministry to our

[00:22:57] family to education and to friendships which means that our kids play one sport and only for a

[00:23:04] short season we won't play on Sundays yeah we won't travel on Sundays yeah it means that we

[00:23:11] actually have nights of the week where we block out we say no media we'll do either games or hobbies

[00:23:17] something like that yeah and then we assign one night a week to host so that night is the night

[00:23:22] that we rotate through people that we have over and we involve our kids in that process

[00:23:27] yeah it might sound really scheduled but you're actually scheduling in your freedom

[00:23:32] you're sort of decalendarizing yourself even though they're still calendar items yeah yeah so

[00:23:38] you're basically saying I'm sorry I can't commit to anything on Wednesday because that's our family

[00:23:42] hobby night which all that means is we stay home and do whatever we want so you're basically like

[00:23:48] saying I can't commit by committing to something else that is your margin you're committing

[00:23:53] margin and we did that about two years ago now and it has completely transformed our home life

[00:23:59] and at the same time enabled us to scale the ministry to what it is today I love that I've had

[00:24:05] Rosaria Butterfield on and she I mean even during COVID they were hosting and doing the same thing

[00:24:12] family night and just the way you segment your time with intentionality and I want us to kind of

[00:24:19] transition from that into what we started talking about which is the discipling of our children

[00:24:24] aspect and that's a form of discipleship or the standards that you set out for them you sort of

[00:24:30] share a lot about discipling your children in a way far beyond behavior modification and my goodness

[00:24:37] what parent isn't trying to do behavior modification on their children so talk to us a little bit

[00:24:42] about what does it look like to shepherd the heart of a little one well I will speak to this not as

[00:24:47] somebody who's an expert because my kids are extremely young but I've had some really great

[00:24:52] godly mentors my parents included who have raised kids who are walking with the Lord

[00:24:59] many of them and hearing their advice and perspectives has shaped me more than any parenting

[00:25:06] book that I've read because they have they've lived it in real time and we've taken a lot of what

[00:25:11] they've taught us to heart but in terms of really looking at our children's hearts I think a lot

[00:25:17] of it is releasing pride for me at least is saying my child's behavior is not a reflection on me

[00:25:26] that has to be managed my child's behavior reflects a heart that needs Jesus and so how can I bring

[00:25:36] Christ into this moment with them I had this moment today was one of my children where you know

[00:25:42] there's a clear attitude issue when we could have come down hard on it and there was a consequence

[00:25:47] for the behavior but at the same time both my husband and I had conversations with this child to

[00:25:54] show them if you feel like you can't resist your anger that's because you can't resist your anger

[00:26:01] and you need the Holy Spirit to help you it's such an opportunity to show them if you feel like

[00:26:07] you can't be good so to speak it's because you need a new heart and only Jesus can give that

[00:26:14] new heart instead of immediately solving it and being like oh no no no no it's all okay or you know

[00:26:21] however our culture might want to deal with it we see it as even failure is an opportunity for

[00:26:27] you to know that you're loved by God and you're loved by us yes this is so good and

[00:26:32] and really helpful because you're right it's the world definitely tells us there's a way to deal

[00:26:37] with that even pop psychology would have a way that would suggest that but you're right this is

[00:26:42] the moment to show the mirror to show the heart to show the need that it's you're not actually

[00:26:48] capable of dismissing your anger outside of a new heart and the work of the spirit in your life

[00:26:55] and putting their reliance on God for all things as they develop as they grow and and it really

[00:27:01] seems like there's you can't be too young for that this is a massive problem today where many people

[00:27:11] are growing up in the church but once they leave they don't know why they believe what they believe

[00:27:17] how do we work towards raising critical thinkers who know the reasons for their faith and aren't

[00:27:25] carried by every wind of doctrine that's a great question so I'll refer back to what my parents did

[00:27:33] because I think they did do a good job on this and you know juries out on my kids yet so

[00:27:38] so talk to me in 10 years but my parents were very intentional one about discipleships they

[00:27:46] they modeled being in the word themselves far more than they ever required it of us I actually think

[00:27:53] like I'm one of six children I don't remember any of us ever being required to read the Bible

[00:28:00] yeah or even bribed encouraged it was modeled though frequently if we got up early enough

[00:28:08] we'd find our dad praying and reading the Bible we'd see my mom practicing verses in her arm

[00:28:13] chair my dad would read proverbs at breakfast like one chapter a day so it was a part of our family

[00:28:19] culture yeah and then the biggest part I think was that we discussed it it wasn't just like

[00:28:25] read aloud time we would discuss well what does this mean what does this look like practically

[00:28:30] in everyday life or we would read different books from history literature we would read newspapers

[00:28:37] and current events and we would talk about what's the underlying principle here what's the moral

[00:28:43] dilemma in front of us so when it comes to critically thinking I think one of the reasons that

[00:28:49] my siblings and I walk with the Lord today is because there wasn't a fear of wrestling with these

[00:28:56] things and there wasn't this alarm over let's you know explore what this is or yeah it wasn't like

[00:29:04] if you ever touch a bottle of wine you're going to hell or if you ever engage with an atheist

[00:29:10] you know you better run or it might you know attach to you somehow yeah it wasn't like that and so I

[00:29:15] think just coming from that place of gracious confidence as a parent like I am absolutely confident

[00:29:21] in this I believe it's true I'm not gonna force it on you but I am going to share it with you

[00:29:27] and let you make that decision with the Lord was a big part of why I chose to stay in the faith

[00:29:33] and home is a safe place to have those conversations right this is the feared place you'd rather

[00:29:39] have it somewhere else kind of thing yeah for sure I remember overhearing someone say that that

[00:29:44] you know the Bible doesn't answer every question and I thought well maybe not specifically but

[00:29:50] it will address it at least at its core issue right and it's trying to force wanting scripture

[00:29:56] to answer the minutiae in the detail of a modern day issue versus trying to discover and understand

[00:30:04] what is it the heart and the core of issues like pride vanity or selfishness you know whatever it

[00:30:11] is and then allowing the scripture to speak to that which will treat the symptom right that people

[00:30:16] are so concerned about and it sounds like this is what your ministry is doing and I'm just so

[00:30:22] grateful that we could talk I think we could probably talk for another hour about all this because

[00:30:26] it's so helpful and it's what we need to hear it's what we need to keep in front of us

[00:30:30] and I'm just so grateful that we could have this conversation thank you so much this was a great

[00:30:36] conversation and I just pray that anyone listening is encouraged to know that they really can study

[00:30:42] the Bible for themselves God wants to be found and he's given us a way to find him yeah he's

[00:30:47] revealed himself you're currently working on another book is there any kind of spill the beans moment

[00:30:53] you can give us I can tell you little we are I say we because our team is involved to a degree

[00:30:59] in what I'm writing and working on I'm working on a theology of the home so every woman a

[00:31:06] theologian the book is like a systematic theology for the layperson and then this gets very practical

[00:31:12] in terms of how that theality plays out in our homes in our everyday life so very practical

[00:31:18] and how God shows up in those supposedly mundane rituals of daily life and how you can use your

[00:31:24] home as a vehicle for the gospel well my guest is Felicia Masonheimer and her ministry is every woman

[00:31:31] a theologian her books are every woman a theologian know what you believe live it confidently

[00:31:38] communicate it graciously and also stop calling me beautiful finding soul deep strength in a

[00:31:43] skin deep world Felicia thank you so much for taking the time to be on candid conversations thank you

[00:31:51] candid is a podcast from leading the way with dr. Michael yousaf don't forget to connect with our

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