Episode 235: Is God Real? Exploring the Ultimate Question of Life: Lee Strobel | Divine Stream Radio |Podcasts | Blogs

Jonathan sits with internationally renowned author, apologist, evangelist, and former investigative journalist Lee Strobel. Known for his bestselling book, The Case for Christ, Strobel shares insights from his remarkable journey from skepticism to faith. The discussion then turns to his latest book, Is God Real? Exploring the Ultimate Question of Life, where he blends his investigative skills with theological inquiry.

The episode offers an enlightening perspective on the recurring question of God's existence, backed by logical arguments, scientific evidence, and profound personal experiences. Listen and then share it with a friend who may benefit from this conversation.

After you listen to this episode, you may have questions. We would love to hear from you! To ask Jonathan a question or connect with the Candid community, visit https://LTW.org/Candid

Also, join the conversation on our social media pages:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/candidpod

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/candidpod

Twitter: https://twitter.com/thecandidpod

For more original podcasts from Leading The Way, please visit ltw.org/subscriptions

[00:01.000 --> 00:10.000] Questions about faith are sometimes that if we hold them in, they're like that nightmare that we don't honestly talk about. [00:10.000 --> 00:12.000] And when we hold them in, they can erode our soul. [00:17.000 --> 00:21.000] Hello and welcome to Candid, where we never settle for less than the truth. [00:21.000 --> 00:29.000] I'm your host, Jonathan Youssef. Each week we'll tackle tough issues, answer your hard questions, and take a candid look at the Christian faith. [00:30.000 --> 00:38.000] Today I'm joined by an author, evangelist and apologist whose journey from skepticism to faith has captivated millions. [00:38.000 --> 00:48.000] He's the acclaimed author of over 40 books, including The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, The Case for a Creator, and many more. [00:48.000 --> 00:54.000] He is a voice that resonates with seekers and believers globally. He is Lee Strobel. [00:55.000 --> 00:59.000] In this conversation, we talk about his latest thought-provoking work. [00:59.000 --> 01:03.000] Is God real? Exploring the ultimate question of life? [01:03.000 --> 01:10.000] So listen, as we explore faith, the evidence for the Christian faith, and his personal transformation in Christ. [01:10.000 --> 01:14.000] Now on to our candid conversation with Lee Strobel. [01:14.000 --> 01:20.000] Well, today we have a special guest and one who I think many of you will be familiar with. [01:20.000 --> 01:28.000] It is Lee Strobel, who's authored The Case for Christ, I think is international bestseller many times over. [01:28.000 --> 01:33.000] And there's a list of all the cases that have come out here. How many have we done? [01:33.000 --> 01:38.000] No, I don't know. We've done over 40 books and a lot of them have the case motif to them. [01:38.000 --> 01:45.000] Yeah, which is a brilliant. It's easy to find and some really helpful kids books, The Case for Faith for Kids. [01:45.000 --> 01:49.000] Case for Christ for Kids, Case for Miracles, Student Edition. [01:49.000 --> 01:52.000] Yeah, I love it. I love the concept. [01:52.000 --> 01:57.000] And that of course comes from your background as an investigative journalist. [01:57.000 --> 02:00.000] We have a fairly wide international audience. [02:00.000 --> 02:06.000] So for those who maybe aren't familiar with you, tell us a little bit about how your testimony came together [02:06.000 --> 02:08.000] and put some of those pieces together for us. [02:08.000 --> 02:13.000] Yeah, my background is in journalism and law. I was a legal editor of the Chicago Tribune. [02:13.000 --> 02:21.000] And a spiritual skeptic and atheist in that era of my life married a woman who I would describe as agnostic. [02:21.000 --> 02:28.000] She just couldn't put the puzzle pieces together, had a vague belief in God, but couldn't put everything into perspective [02:28.000 --> 02:32.000] to understand what that really means and have a relationship with God and so forth. [02:32.000 --> 02:33.000] Right. [02:33.000 --> 02:39.000] And so we moved into a kind of a new building near Chicago and one of the neighbors was a Christian. [02:39.000 --> 02:44.000] Yeah, she was a nurse. She came over one day with a plate of cookies and introduced herself to Leslie. [02:44.000 --> 02:48.000] They became really good friends. And she was a strong Christian. [02:48.000 --> 02:53.000] She would answer Leslie's questions and have long discussions with her about faith issues. [02:53.000 --> 03:00.000] She brought Leslie to church. And then Leslie came up to me one day and gave me the worst news any atheist husband could get. [03:00.000 --> 03:04.000] She said, I decided to become a follower of Jesus. [03:04.000 --> 03:05.000] And I free. [03:05.000 --> 03:06.000] The gift of hospitality. [03:06.000 --> 03:07.000] Yeah. [03:07.000 --> 03:08.000] Amazing. [03:08.000 --> 03:09.000] I don't think we give enough credit to that. [03:09.000 --> 03:10.000] That's true. [03:10.000 --> 03:11.000] Yeah. [03:11.000 --> 03:12.000] That's true. [03:12.000 --> 03:18.000] And so that's what prompted me over time to use my journalism training and legal training and systematically investigate. [03:18.000 --> 03:21.000] Is there any credibility to this thing? I thought I could disprove it in a weekend. [03:21.000 --> 03:22.000] Yeah. [03:22.000 --> 03:25.000] And took me two years to investigate it until I realize it. [03:25.000 --> 03:32.000] In light of the strength of the evidence that points so powerfully toward the truth of Christianity, it would have taken more faith [03:32.000 --> 03:34.000] and maintained my atheism to become a Christian. [03:34.000 --> 03:35.000] Right. [03:35.000 --> 03:39.000] So that's when I put my faith in Christ and my life like hers began to change. [03:39.000 --> 03:40.000] That's the journey. [03:40.000 --> 03:46.000] My values, my character, my morality, my attitudes, my relationships, my worldview, my parenting. [03:46.000 --> 03:49.000] All these things over time began to change. [03:49.000 --> 03:52.000] And they've made a film about your life. [03:52.000 --> 03:53.000] Yeah. [03:53.000 --> 04:00.000] It's called The Case for Christ and stars are Mike Vogel who actually was a high school student when he kind of lost his faith [04:00.000 --> 04:04.000] and read The Case for Christ and coming back to faith. [04:04.000 --> 04:07.000] And I could say this because I didn't make the movie. [04:07.000 --> 04:09.000] They did a great job in the movie. [04:09.000 --> 04:10.000] Yeah. [04:10.000 --> 04:15.000] It's a powerful film and you can find it on various streaming platforms. [04:15.000 --> 04:19.000] You can get it for free I'm sure these days has been out since 2017. [04:19.000 --> 04:20.000] It went all around the world. [04:20.000 --> 04:28.000] And I know in Australia where you've done a lot of work, there was a little church that rented a movie theater and showed it [04:28.000 --> 04:30.000] and 22 people came to faith. [04:30.000 --> 04:31.000] Oh wow. [04:31.000 --> 04:33.000] So I got you said in the remarkable ways. [04:33.000 --> 04:34.000] Oh, I love hearing that. [04:34.000 --> 04:41.000] That's such a powerful story and powerful witness to so many in our world who come from that position. [04:41.000 --> 04:47.000] Of course, there's many who grow up in the church and then different experiences come shape mold them in the trajectory. [04:47.000 --> 04:52.000] But many who come from a background of unbelief and I love the whole case for model. [04:52.000 --> 04:56.000] Well, you've got a new book out that doesn't follow the case model. [04:57.000 --> 05:01.000] It's entitled is God real exploring the ultimate question of life. [05:01.000 --> 05:05.000] Tell us a little bit about breaking the case model and then getting into this. [05:05.000 --> 05:10.000] Well, this was the first time I've done all these books and my publisher came to me. [05:10.000 --> 05:13.000] And they said our tech people have discovered something extraordinary. [05:13.000 --> 05:14.000] I said what? [05:14.000 --> 05:20.000] They said we discovered that 200 times a second around the clock someone on planet Earth is typing into a computer search engine. [05:20.000 --> 05:23.000] Basically the question is God real. [05:23.000 --> 05:26.000] And I said, oh my goodness, I've got to do a book on that. [05:26.000 --> 05:31.000] I mean, if there's that many people asking this question, then it needs to be addressed. [05:31.000 --> 05:37.000] And so I've drawn from some of my earlier works and new interviews and so forth to try to give a comprehensive view. [05:37.000 --> 05:41.000] It looks as science, it looks at philosophy and history as well. [05:41.000 --> 05:42.000] Well, I do. [05:42.000 --> 05:49.000] I love the model, which is again, putting your skills as an investigative journalist to the test here. [05:50.000 --> 05:53.000] Chapter headings include the cosmos requires a creator. [05:53.000 --> 05:56.000] And then you've done an interview with William Lane Craig. [05:56.000 --> 05:58.000] The universe needs a fine tuner. [05:58.000 --> 06:00.000] Michael Strauss, PhD. [06:00.000 --> 06:07.000] And it's all, you know, obviously if you're looking for a position of authority, I mean, they all have PhD at the end of their names. [06:07.000 --> 06:10.000] But I think this is just fantastic. [06:10.000 --> 06:16.000] And walking people through the arguments that come forward. [06:16.000 --> 06:18.000] Now here's my question. [06:18.000 --> 06:23.000] Do you find that it is people are just looking for evidence? [06:23.000 --> 06:26.000] Or do you find that there's something deeper? [06:26.000 --> 06:29.000] That the evidence doesn't really matter to them, even if it was real? [06:29.000 --> 06:33.000] There's something else that's kind of buried along inside there? [06:33.000 --> 06:37.000] I often find that people have spiritual sticking points, I call them. [06:37.000 --> 06:40.000] And a sticking point could be a father wound. [06:40.000 --> 06:41.000] Yeah. [06:41.000 --> 06:46.000] That they had a bad relationship with their father and therefore they don't have any interest in finding a heavenly father [06:46.000 --> 06:49.000] who was only going to hurt him more than the earthly father did. [06:49.000 --> 06:52.000] Some people may not even be aware of that dynamic. [06:52.000 --> 06:56.000] It could be era of suffering that they went through and they say, [06:56.000 --> 06:59.000] I can't believe in a good God if I've suffered this way. [06:59.000 --> 07:03.000] So I think there's different kinds of sticking points that people have. [07:03.000 --> 07:08.000] I've sort of changed my approach through the years because times have changed. [07:08.000 --> 07:10.000] And I'll give you an example. [07:10.000 --> 07:12.000] A lot of times I'll get in a conversation with someone who's not a Christian. [07:12.000 --> 07:18.000] I'll say to them, if you could ask God any one question and you knew He'd give you an answer right now, [07:18.000 --> 07:20.000] what would you ask them? [07:20.000 --> 07:25.000] And often, 80% of the time, they would say some permutation of the question, [07:25.000 --> 07:28.000] well, if God is real, why is there suffering? [07:28.000 --> 07:29.000] Yeah. [07:29.000 --> 07:31.000] And I used to say, oh, well, let me tell you. [07:31.000 --> 07:34.000] And I'll give him a five-point sermon on why God loves suffering. [07:34.000 --> 07:36.000] But I don't do that anymore. [07:36.000 --> 07:40.000] They'll say, I want to know, you know, where's God in the midst of suffering? [07:40.000 --> 07:42.000] And I say, wait a minute. [07:42.000 --> 07:47.000] Of all the potential questions in the universe, why did you choose that one? [07:47.000 --> 07:48.000] Now they get personal. [07:48.000 --> 07:53.000] Now they say, because my wife has just been diagnosed with cancer, where's God in that? [07:53.000 --> 07:54.000] Right. [07:54.000 --> 07:57.000] Or we lost a baby in childbirth five years ago, where's God in that? [07:57.000 --> 07:58.000] Yeah. [07:58.000 --> 08:03.000] And I come to realize that what that person needs at that moment is not a five-point sermon in the evidence. [08:03.000 --> 08:09.000] They need me to sit down next to them, put my arm around their shoulder to weep with them to be Jesus to them [08:09.000 --> 08:10.000] in that moment. [08:10.000 --> 08:17.000] And yes, there's probably a time later on where the evidence should be brought to bear and where [08:17.000 --> 08:23.000] an explanation logically can show the coexistence of God and the existence of suffering. [08:23.000 --> 08:27.000] But at that moment, they need the personal touch of Jesus. [08:27.000 --> 08:28.000] Yeah. [08:28.000 --> 08:29.000] So it's a pastoral approach. [08:29.000 --> 08:30.000] Yes. [08:30.000 --> 08:31.000] That's right. [08:31.000 --> 08:35.000] And I do wonder in our day and age if we're severely lacking in that. [08:35.000 --> 08:39.000] And I do want to talk a little bit about some of the research data that you put in your [08:39.000 --> 08:43.000] introduction, just thinking about this Gen Z. [08:43.000 --> 08:44.000] Yes. [08:44.000 --> 08:51.000] So those born between 1999 and 2015, they really lived through COVID as young people. [08:51.000 --> 08:55.000] There's a severe amount of depression, anxiety. [08:55.000 --> 08:56.000] Right. [08:56.000 --> 09:00.000] We've heard it when we go to our pediatrician and she says, I'm constantly dealing with [09:00.000 --> 09:01.000] anxiety and depression. [09:01.000 --> 09:02.000] Yes. [09:02.000 --> 09:03.000] Unlike I've ever dealt with it before. [09:03.000 --> 09:04.000] Yeah. [09:04.000 --> 09:05.000] I mean, the statistics are there. [09:05.000 --> 09:07.000] So I know that's kind of the bad news. [09:07.000 --> 09:08.000] Right. [09:08.000 --> 09:09.000] What's the good news? [09:09.000 --> 09:10.000] Yeah. [09:10.000 --> 09:11.000] You're right. [09:11.000 --> 09:14.000] And in Generation Z, twice as many members of Gen Z will call themselves atheists compared to [09:14.000 --> 09:15.000] my generation. [09:15.000 --> 09:16.000] So I live in the book. [09:16.000 --> 09:18.000] You say it's no longer a dirty word to them. [09:18.000 --> 09:19.000] Yeah. [09:19.000 --> 09:20.000] It's like it's just accurate. [09:20.000 --> 09:21.000] Yeah. [09:21.000 --> 09:26.000] You know, back when I was an atheist back in the 1970s, you never told someone you were an atheist. [09:26.000 --> 09:27.000] That's like saying, I'm a pedophile. [09:27.000 --> 09:28.000] Yeah. [09:28.000 --> 09:33.000] You know, I mean, it was so frowned upon that you didn't breathe a word of it. [09:33.000 --> 09:39.000] It's not only socially acceptable, it's socially laudable in a lot of places on college campuses [09:39.000 --> 09:40.000] and so forth. [09:40.000 --> 09:44.600] But there is good news and one of the people I quote is Shane Pruitt, who's a friend of mine [09:44.600 --> 09:48.120] who's a ministry is to travel the country and to speak to groups of young people, high school [09:48.120 --> 09:49.120] and college age. [09:49.120 --> 09:50.120] Yeah. [09:50.120 --> 09:53.440] And he told me, he said, Lee, in the last three years, I've seen more young people come to faith [09:53.440 --> 09:57.000] in Jesus Christ than in the previous 18 years of ministry combined. [09:57.000 --> 09:58.000] Wow. [09:58.000 --> 09:59.000] Wow. [09:59.000 --> 10:01.440] And he said, normally I'll give an opportunity for people to receive Christ. [10:01.440 --> 10:08.360] And he said, in the old days, you know, if 10% said yes, but now it's 40% will receive [10:08.360 --> 10:09.360] Christ. [10:09.360 --> 10:11.120] So there is still a hunger. [10:11.120 --> 10:12.760] People are still asking for this question. [10:12.760 --> 10:13.760] Is God real? [10:13.760 --> 10:18.360] There's still this God shaped void in their life and they're looking for answers, these [10:18.360 --> 10:19.360] ultimate questions. [10:19.360 --> 10:24.240] Well, I've heard statistics, particularly in the Middle East, where when you saw the [10:24.240 --> 10:30.520] rise of Isis, what you saw was sort of nominal Muslims who looked at that and said, I'm [10:30.520 --> 10:31.520] not so sure. [10:31.520 --> 10:32.520] That's what I believe. [10:32.520 --> 10:33.520] Yes. [10:33.520 --> 10:34.520] Yes. [10:34.520 --> 10:38.920] And so what they have actually statistically trended towards atheism, which now you're at [10:38.920 --> 10:45.600] least a step closer to being willing to listen to a message that's different, whereas Islam [10:45.600 --> 10:48.840] would shout out the Christian gospel. [10:48.840 --> 10:55.960] But atheism, you're now saying, okay, I'm open to debate and thinking through these things, [10:55.960 --> 11:00.480] which is a much more helpful position in platform, not that it can't happen the other way around. [11:00.480 --> 11:01.960] We know, of course, it does. [11:01.960 --> 11:05.200] But that's, I found that really encouraging in your book. [11:05.200 --> 11:09.040] And I know some other books that are coming out that are saying similarly. [11:09.040 --> 11:15.200] Now, thinking of this from the evangelical perspective, and again, I think you mentioned it in your [11:15.200 --> 11:18.960] book as well, you have this rise of deconstruction. [11:18.960 --> 11:19.960] Yes. [11:19.960 --> 11:20.960] Right. [11:20.960 --> 11:26.920] So kids who were born in Christian homes, claimed to profess faith in Christ at some point and [11:26.920 --> 11:33.480] their life is meeting some sort of conflict or something's come up and they are saying, [11:33.480 --> 11:34.760] I no longer believe this. [11:34.760 --> 11:38.960] And I know you have, of course, the well-known story of Charles Templeton. [11:38.960 --> 11:39.960] Yes. [11:39.960 --> 11:44.240] Essentially the first deconstructionist in the modern era, I think. [11:44.240 --> 11:47.160] Talk to us a little bit about that and those statistics that you're seeing from there. [11:47.160 --> 11:53.320] You know what's interesting, Tim Keller, the pastor in New York City who passed recently. [11:53.320 --> 11:56.440] When someone would come to him, a young man would come from his congregation or he'd [11:56.440 --> 12:00.760] meet him and they'd say, yeah, you know, I used to believe I don't really anymore. [12:00.760 --> 12:03.360] I'm kind of deconstructing my faith. [12:03.360 --> 12:09.480] And Tim's response was always, he would just say to them, what's her name? [12:09.480 --> 12:14.160] Because so often there's a motivation there and they're saying, you know, they may not [12:14.160 --> 12:15.160] be verbal. [12:15.160 --> 12:17.360] But yeah, I've got this girlfriend at Franklin. [12:17.360 --> 12:22.040] I don't like the biblical teachings about premarital sexuality. [12:22.040 --> 12:26.080] If you're looking for an excuse not to believe, any excuse is good enough. [12:26.080 --> 12:28.680] So I don't think it's unhealthy to ask questions. [12:28.680 --> 12:30.320] I think it's healthy to ask questions. [12:30.320 --> 12:32.400] I don't think we should have shy away from that. [12:32.400 --> 12:34.280] I deconstructed my atheism. [12:34.280 --> 12:35.280] Yeah. [12:35.280 --> 12:36.280] Right. [12:36.280 --> 12:37.280] Yeah. [12:37.280 --> 12:38.280] And found faith. [12:38.280 --> 12:39.600] So God is not surprised by our questions. [12:39.600 --> 12:44.760] I think we want to encourage young people to ask the tough questions because, you know, when [12:44.760 --> 12:47.520] you're a kid, I don't know if it's true for you, but it was for me. [12:47.520 --> 12:52.880] You know, I'm a little kid, I'm in my bedroom by myself and I have a nightmare. [12:52.880 --> 12:59.400] And I wake up and my heart's pounding and I'm sweating and my pulse is going and I'm [12:59.400 --> 13:00.400] scared to death. [13:00.400 --> 13:03.600] And so I run into my parents bedroom, I jump into bed and they say, what's wrong? [13:03.600 --> 13:04.600] What's wrong? [13:04.600 --> 13:06.240] He said, oh, I had this horrible dream. [13:06.240 --> 13:07.400] Tell us about the dream. [13:07.400 --> 13:12.560] Oh, well, there was this monster under my bed and he had six eyes and five hands and then [13:12.560 --> 13:16.280] you start to laugh because it sounds so silly, you know, you're afraid of it. [13:16.280 --> 13:22.440] This is like questions about faith art sometimes that if we hold them in, they're like that [13:22.440 --> 13:27.760] nightmare that we don't honestly talk about and when we hold them in, they can erode our [13:27.760 --> 13:28.760] soul. [13:28.760 --> 13:33.320] But when we talk about them and we say, I got a question about God. [13:33.320 --> 13:36.560] Did Jesus really ever claim to be the son of God? [13:36.560 --> 13:40.160] Is the resurrection really credible in the 21st century? [13:40.160 --> 13:46.200] All of a sudden the question loses its grip over you and you get into a mode of exploring [13:46.200 --> 13:47.200] answers. [13:47.200 --> 13:48.200] And you know what? [13:48.200 --> 13:54.080] It's between when I deconstructed my atheism back in the 70s and early 80s and today is [13:54.080 --> 13:55.080] a back then. [13:55.080 --> 13:59.480] There was virtually no resources available on the accessible level. [13:59.480 --> 14:01.480] I mean, I get to travel the library. [14:01.480 --> 14:07.120] Oh, my gosh, I'm going to museums, I'm going to microfilm and microfiche. [14:07.120 --> 14:08.840] I remember doing an interlibrary loan. [14:08.840 --> 14:12.920] I was looking for a book from the 1860s and I did an interlibrary loan. [14:12.920 --> 14:17.200] It took like six months before they founded and some obscure library had rubber bands around [14:17.200 --> 14:18.200] it. [14:18.200 --> 14:23.160] Today, there's all kinds of great resources on the everyday accessible level that people [14:23.160 --> 14:24.560] can find answers. [14:24.560 --> 14:26.920] I think they'll satisfy their heart and soul. [14:26.920 --> 14:29.800] And that's the thing that's just so baffling. [14:29.800 --> 14:33.920] We have so much access to information and I love that just the way you put it in the [14:33.920 --> 14:34.920] introduction, right? [14:34.920 --> 14:40.200] So the 200 times a second around the clock around the world is God real. [14:40.200 --> 14:44.120] You'll get 3.7 billion results in two thirds of a second. [14:44.120 --> 14:48.000] And the digital tidal wave that generates more confusion than it lies in. [14:48.000 --> 14:49.000] Exactly. [14:49.000 --> 14:51.600] I mean, that's the thing is that we're going to the wrong places. [14:51.600 --> 14:56.280] Now, now, I mean, caveat, the internet eventually will give you a right answer. [14:56.280 --> 14:58.360] But you have to look for it. [14:58.360 --> 15:03.720] I actually asked artificial intelligence, chat, whatever it is, I asked this guy real [15:03.720 --> 15:08.800] and I got back this answer that was so, you know, well on this hand and on the other hand [15:08.800 --> 15:11.360] and you know, some people say this and some it was worthless. [15:11.360 --> 15:12.360] Yeah, of course. [15:12.360 --> 15:13.920] It can't make a statement of absolute truth. [15:13.920 --> 15:14.920] Exactly. [15:14.920 --> 15:15.920] Okay. [15:15.920 --> 15:17.640] Talk us a little bit more through the book. [15:17.640 --> 15:20.160] So how did you come to break down these chapters? [15:20.160 --> 15:21.160] Were they built intentionally? [15:21.160 --> 15:23.120] I mean, as I go through it, I love it. [15:23.120 --> 15:28.140] I love the format of at the beginning of each section, you either tell a story from your [15:28.140 --> 15:31.000] own life or from someone else's story. [15:31.000 --> 15:35.200] And you know, sometimes we forget the testimonies of others. [15:35.200 --> 15:36.200] Yeah. [15:36.200 --> 15:38.760] Sometimes I forget, you know, they, I go to church and it's, you know, you know, so and [15:38.760 --> 15:41.800] so and so and so and so and they evolve grew up in a Christian home and that's just the life [15:41.800 --> 15:42.800] they live. [15:42.800 --> 15:48.520] But stories like yours, stories of where God just plucked someone out, you know, from [15:48.520 --> 15:50.120] amongst and then set a new trajectory. [15:50.120 --> 15:51.120] Yeah. [15:51.120 --> 15:54.120] I think I got like 12 bullet pointed stories in the introduction. [15:54.120 --> 16:00.040] Just brief one paragraph about people, some were Methodics and some were Muslims and different [16:00.040 --> 16:04.560] life experience, but they were all skeptics and yet somehow God got a whole of them. [16:04.560 --> 16:05.560] Yeah. [16:05.560 --> 16:08.320] And you know, so there is a good answer to the question is God rehomed. [16:08.320 --> 16:09.320] Right. [16:09.320 --> 16:10.320] Right. [16:10.320 --> 16:11.320] Exactly. [16:11.320 --> 16:16.280] So that was the resurrection of Jesus because I figured, well, wait a minute, if Jesus claimed [16:16.280 --> 16:22.520] to be the son of God and I came to the conclusion he did, his resurrection really affirmed that [16:22.520 --> 16:26.680] that anybody can claim to be the son of God, but Jesus claimed that died and then three [16:26.680 --> 16:27.960] days later rose from the dead. [16:27.960 --> 16:28.960] That's pretty good evidence. [16:28.960 --> 16:29.960] He's telling the truth. [16:29.960 --> 16:30.960] Yeah. [16:30.960 --> 16:31.960] And so for me, that was really important. [16:31.960 --> 16:38.520] However, in the last 50 years or so, we've had a series of discoveries in science that [16:38.520 --> 16:44.520] make belief in God, I believe more credible today than anytime in history. [16:44.520 --> 16:45.520] Yeah. [16:45.520 --> 16:49.800] And I'm speaking of things like cosmology, the origin of the universe, physics, the fine [16:49.800 --> 16:53.400] tuning of the universe and biological information, DNA. [16:53.400 --> 16:54.400] Yeah. [16:54.400 --> 16:58.120] And it's just been the last 50 to 60 years that they've made these discoveries. [16:58.120 --> 16:59.120] Yeah. [16:59.120 --> 17:02.520] I'll give you an example of from cosmology, the origin of the universe, where did the universe [17:02.520 --> 17:03.520] come from? [17:03.520 --> 17:07.160] You know, scientists believe for centuries that the universe was eternal. [17:07.160 --> 17:08.400] It always existed. [17:08.400 --> 17:11.400] And when Christians would say, oh, wait a minute, the Bible says there was a door to [17:11.400 --> 17:15.320] any, you know, they go, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's eternal. [17:15.320 --> 17:20.040] Well, we've had a series of discoveries in the last 50 to 80 years that point powerfully [17:20.040 --> 17:23.040] toward the fact the universe had a beginning at some point in the past. [17:23.040 --> 17:29.040] And Alexander Volinkin, one of the most prominent cosmologists in the world at Tufts University [17:29.040 --> 17:33.280] said the evidence is now in place that the universe had a beginning. [17:33.280 --> 17:35.480] And virtually every scientist accepts that. [17:35.640 --> 17:39.440] Well, then you think about that and you go, wait a minute, there's a argument for the existence [17:39.440 --> 17:45.320] of God that says whatever begins to exist has a cause, we now know that the universe began [17:45.320 --> 17:46.320] to exist. [17:46.320 --> 17:49.280] Therefore, the universe must have a cause behind it. [17:49.280 --> 17:53.120] And then you ask, okay, well, what kind of a cause can bring a universe into existence? [17:53.120 --> 17:55.760] Well, number one must be transcendent. [17:55.760 --> 18:01.320] Does it existed apart from creation must be eternal or timeless because it existed before [18:01.400 --> 18:06.360] physical time came into being must be immaterial or spirit because it existed before the physical [18:06.360 --> 18:11.560] world was created must be powerful given the immensity of the creation event must be smart [18:11.560 --> 18:16.000] given the precision of the creation event must be personal because he had to make the decision [18:16.000 --> 18:21.440] to create must be creative because my goodness, just look at this universe must be loving [18:21.440 --> 18:25.800] or caring because he crafted a habitat so carefully for us to flourish in. [18:25.800 --> 18:28.960] And then the scientific principle of Occam's razor would tell us there'd be just one [18:28.960 --> 18:29.960] creator. [18:29.960 --> 18:30.960] So what do we got? [18:30.960 --> 18:37.960] Transcendent, eternal, spirit, powerful, smart, personal, creative, loving, unique. [18:37.960 --> 18:40.400] That's a description of the God of the Bible. [18:40.400 --> 18:44.680] And I'm telling you, Jonathan, if I were an atheist today, I would come to the conclusion [18:44.680 --> 18:48.560] that God exists just based on the evidence of cosmology. [18:48.560 --> 18:49.560] That's just me speaking. [18:49.560 --> 18:54.520] But I find it so powerful and I've read on all sides of this issue. [18:54.520 --> 18:57.800] And I'm telling you, there is no good argument against it. [18:57.800 --> 19:02.720] Well, and I've seen even in recent days sort of, Dawkins has been kind of fumbling around [19:02.720 --> 19:04.640] trying to get out of that. [19:04.640 --> 19:08.040] And it seems like you're right, the evidence and everything is sort of shifting over and [19:08.040 --> 19:13.080] he's trying to say, well, there's this new theory, matter and antimatter and the audiences [19:13.080 --> 19:16.680] are laughing at him because it's like you're trying to define nothing, you can't even do [19:16.680 --> 19:17.680] it. [19:17.680 --> 19:18.680] Exactly. [19:18.680 --> 19:19.680] It's fascinating. [19:19.680 --> 19:24.320] Now, on top of that, in terms of thinking of evidence, I always find it fascinating that [19:24.320 --> 19:32.320] most of the academic community has no problem in saying that there was a historical Christ. [19:32.320 --> 19:35.400] And I know this is kind of some of this is uncovered in your book. [19:35.400 --> 19:39.800] I think until I met my friend, John Dixon, an Australian number of years ago, I always [19:39.800 --> 19:43.960] thought, well, all of the scientific and academic community don't believe in any of this. [19:43.960 --> 19:45.680] And he says, no, they do. [19:45.680 --> 19:48.000] They actually, they have no problem saying that. [19:48.000 --> 19:54.280] Of course, they will come to the wrong conclusion, but the evidence of all of that is [19:54.280 --> 19:55.920] seems to be out of the debate. [19:55.920 --> 19:59.480] Yeah, Dr. Gary Hevermas, who's probably the leading expert in the world on the resurrection [19:59.480 --> 20:05.600] is preparing and currently writing and publishing of, I think, a 5,000 page defense of the resurrection [20:05.600 --> 20:06.600] of Jesus. [20:06.600 --> 20:08.600] And I just read an excerpt from it. [20:08.600 --> 20:14.240] And in it, he quotes a lot of skeptics who are in the scientific and historical community [20:14.240 --> 20:20.560] who can see that Jesus didn't only live, but he was a healer and he was an exorcist. [20:20.560 --> 20:24.240] And they say, that is historically kind of undeniable about him. [20:24.240 --> 20:28.640] Now they can try to explain that away, you know, but that's pretty important stuff to [20:28.640 --> 20:33.840] be able to concede that, okay, there was a Jesus and he was a healer and he was an exorcist. [20:33.840 --> 20:34.840] Yeah. [20:34.840 --> 20:38.560] Now, I notice you have a little piece of paper over there with a pyramid in which I see in [20:38.560 --> 20:39.560] your book. [20:39.560 --> 20:40.560] Yeah. [20:40.560 --> 20:41.560] Do you want to do you want to walk us through that? [20:41.560 --> 20:43.360] This is sort of your apologetics pyramid. [20:43.360 --> 20:45.280] Yeah, this kind of fun. [20:45.280 --> 20:49.200] Back when I was a pastor at a church in Chicago, I preached one Sunday on the evidence for [20:49.200 --> 20:53.640] the resurrection and I'm greeting people after the service and a guy comes up to me [20:53.640 --> 20:58.760] and he said, hey, I'm an atheist and what you said today is really interesting. [20:58.760 --> 21:01.560] He said, could we get together and have coffee and talk about it? [21:01.560 --> 21:03.880] And I said, I'd love to, but I'm leaving the country tomorrow. [21:03.880 --> 21:06.000] I'm going to be gone for quite a while. [21:06.000 --> 21:07.680] But and I saw a friend of mine there. [21:07.680 --> 21:10.440] I said, my friend Chad, he'll be glad to get together with you. [21:10.440 --> 21:13.200] Well, Chad was a seminary student at the time. [21:13.200 --> 21:17.080] He's now, by the way, a PhD in philosophy of religion. [21:17.080 --> 21:19.080] He's written, I don't know how many books. [21:19.080 --> 21:23.280] I mean, he's a leading expert on philosophy. [21:23.280 --> 21:27.360] But anyway, Chad Meister comes over and I said, yeah, I'd love to get the, once you come [21:27.360 --> 21:31.800] over to my apartment on Friday night and we'll have dinner and talk about it. [21:31.800 --> 21:37.640] So he's thinking to himself, how do I present, I mean, we're starting kind of at a very basic [21:37.640 --> 21:38.640] level. [21:38.640 --> 21:42.920] How do I present the case for the existence of the God of the Bible? [21:42.920 --> 21:48.880] And he imagines in his mind a pyramid and he said, if I started the broadest question, [21:48.880 --> 21:54.040] which is what is truth, and then kind of move up from there and look at possible worldviews. [21:54.040 --> 21:56.360] There's only three possible worldviews. [21:56.360 --> 22:01.600] There is a God, atheism, there is no God or polytheism or pantheism rather that everything [22:01.600 --> 22:02.600] is God. [22:02.600 --> 22:08.840] And so we can examine those that an analysis of that when you use the grid of livability [22:08.840 --> 22:14.200] and logic, frankly, it eliminates atheism and eliminates pantheism. [22:14.200 --> 22:17.880] And so you're left with theism and how do we know that theism is true? [22:17.880 --> 22:19.360] And then it goes to revelation. [22:19.360 --> 22:22.580] How can we trust the Bible, especially the New Testament? [22:22.580 --> 22:26.920] And then it goes to resurrection as this pyramid is coming to a point to the resurrection of [22:26.920 --> 22:27.920] Jesus. [22:27.920 --> 22:30.400] Did he really return from the dead and thus prove he's the son of God? [22:30.400 --> 22:32.760] And then the peak is the gospel itself. [22:32.760 --> 22:37.040] So he sits down with this guy at seven o'clock on a Friday night to have dinner. [22:37.040 --> 22:39.400] And then they start going through the pyramid and what is truth? [22:39.400 --> 22:42.760] Well, truth is whatever corresponds to reality. [22:42.760 --> 22:44.720] It's not preferences and not opinions. [22:44.720 --> 22:46.240] It's whatever corresponds to reality. [22:46.240 --> 22:50.760] And he talked about that and he moved up the pyramid with this guy and by 11 p.m. that [22:50.760 --> 22:53.200] guy put his faith in Jesus Christ. [22:53.200 --> 22:58.160] And so Chad later as a, and for God's Ph.D., and everything actually wrote a book called [22:58.160 --> 23:00.680] Building Belief where he goes through this pyramid. [23:00.680 --> 23:05.400] And so in my book, I interviewed Chad about it and we spent a chapter kind of going up [23:05.400 --> 23:12.880] that pyramid and demonstrating that the most logical, livable, and logical belief is Christianity. [23:12.880 --> 23:13.880] Amazing. [23:13.880 --> 23:14.880] Yeah. [23:14.880 --> 23:15.880] I'm so proud of him. [23:15.880 --> 23:20.320] I'm just going to say you have to have a Ph.D. after you put all that together and present [23:20.320 --> 23:21.320] the arguments helpfully. [23:21.320 --> 23:22.320] Yeah. [23:22.320 --> 23:28.080] Well, to have a volunteer in a ministry as a pastor who then goes on and becomes, I think [23:28.080 --> 23:31.200] he was vice president of the Evangelical Philosophical Society. [23:31.200 --> 23:34.040] I mean, he's a very prominent philosopher. [23:34.040 --> 23:38.960] I think that's what every pastor wants to see people coming to faith and then putting their [23:38.960 --> 23:43.880] faith in their giftedness into action and making a difference for Jesus. [23:43.960 --> 23:48.200] Now, I think most people, of course, are familiar with your name. [23:48.200 --> 23:51.240] Those who are in churches, have read your books. [23:51.240 --> 23:57.520] I think the theory or the thought would be your books are mostly read by Christians who [23:57.520 --> 24:01.640] you know, or maybe looking for presenting the case to their unsaved friends or whatever. [24:01.640 --> 24:07.200] But the statistics are actually young and it seems like outside the church. [24:07.200 --> 24:08.200] Yeah. [24:08.200 --> 24:09.200] Talk to us about that. [24:09.280 --> 24:15.040] I want you to help us because I know a lot of the people listening will have some young [24:15.040 --> 24:20.880] person in their life who is to Keller's point, either chasing some of the things of the world. [24:20.880 --> 24:21.880] Yeah. [24:21.880 --> 24:25.760] You know, the book, the case for Christ, has taken on a life of its own, gone around the [24:25.760 --> 24:28.040] world, millions of copies. [24:28.040 --> 24:33.320] And I get great stories back from people who started as a non-believer and I'll give you [24:33.320 --> 24:34.320] one quick one. [24:34.320 --> 24:39.000] Right after the book came out, within weeks, I got in the letter from Amatrassana, who [24:39.000 --> 24:40.000] was here, astronomer. [24:40.000 --> 24:43.640] He said, you know, I went to Barnes and Noble to buy the latest astronomy magazine. [24:43.640 --> 24:47.080] And I sat on a bench to leave through it and I sat on something. [24:47.080 --> 24:50.080] I pulled it out and it was the case for Christ. [24:50.080 --> 24:51.800] And I flipped through it and I thought, I'm an atheist. [24:51.800 --> 24:52.800] I don't believe this stuff. [24:52.800 --> 24:58.160] And he said, I threw the book down and he said, it was like a voice inside of me said, [24:58.160 --> 24:59.680] you need to read that book. [24:59.680 --> 25:04.600] So he picked up the book, he bought it, he read it, he came to faith and he wanted [25:04.600 --> 25:05.600] to tell me about it. [25:05.600 --> 25:09.000] And he actually became friends with him and I actually brought him to the publisher to [25:09.000 --> 25:12.960] speak to the people who are on the staff of the publisher to encourage them and show how [25:12.960 --> 25:16.000] God uses printed material to bring people to faith. [25:16.000 --> 25:19.400] And to this day, he retired not long ago and he's part of a Baptist church in Kentucky. [25:19.400 --> 25:21.040] He's still living his faith out. [25:21.040 --> 25:26.040] But the funniest story of somebody coming to faith through the book, I got a phone call [25:26.040 --> 25:32.080] one day and I said, hi, this is Lee and the voice says, this is Lee's Droble. [25:32.080 --> 25:33.080] I said, yes. [25:33.080 --> 25:35.280] And the voice said, this is evil. [25:35.280 --> 25:37.280] And I thought Satan has gotten my phone number. [25:37.280 --> 25:38.280] How is this? [25:38.280 --> 25:39.280] Can you do that? [25:39.280 --> 25:42.640] He said, no, it's evil, can you evil? [25:42.640 --> 25:43.640] So evil told. [25:43.640 --> 25:44.640] Yeah. [25:44.640 --> 25:45.640] The difference bell is so evil. [25:45.640 --> 25:46.840] Can you tell me his story? [25:46.840 --> 25:50.520] He said, and I knew the background, he was a womanizer. [25:50.520 --> 25:51.520] He was a drunk. [25:51.520 --> 25:53.680] He was a partier. [25:53.680 --> 25:55.680] He was my goodness. [25:55.680 --> 25:58.080] He lived a sinful life. [25:58.080 --> 26:05.240] He had a woman in every town, a gambler and but he said, I was standing on the beach. [26:05.240 --> 26:07.120] In Florida where he lived. [26:07.120 --> 26:09.280] And he said, God spoke to me. [26:09.280 --> 26:10.960] He said, I didn't hear it through my ears. [26:10.960 --> 26:12.360] It was like inside of me. [26:12.360 --> 26:16.520] And the voice said, Robert, which is his real name, Robert, I've saved you more times you [26:16.520 --> 26:17.920] never know. [26:17.920 --> 26:21.000] Now you need to come to me through my son, Jesus. [26:21.000 --> 26:22.000] And he said, I was shocked. [26:22.000 --> 26:23.000] I didn't know. [26:23.000 --> 26:24.000] I didn't know. [26:24.000 --> 26:25.000] Who was Jesus? [26:25.000 --> 26:26.000] I don't really even know who Jesus is. [26:26.000 --> 26:30.520] So he's thinking, who's the only Christian I know, Frank Gifford, the sports caster, panthely [26:30.520 --> 26:31.520] Gifford's husband. [26:31.520 --> 26:32.520] So she calls up Frank. [26:32.520 --> 26:35.040] So Frank, I just had this experience with God. [26:35.040 --> 26:36.040] And what do I do? [26:36.040 --> 26:37.440] Who's Jesus? [26:37.440 --> 26:39.480] And Frank said, read the case for Christ. [26:39.480 --> 26:41.200] That'll kind of explain the whole thing. [26:41.200 --> 26:44.320] So Evil's wife goes out, gets him a copy of the case for Christ. [26:44.320 --> 26:45.320] He gets it. [26:45.320 --> 26:46.320] He reads it. [26:46.320 --> 26:53.600] Anyway, long story short, he has a radical conversion to Christ, 180 degree change in [26:53.600 --> 26:54.600] him. [26:54.600 --> 26:56.280] He is a new person. [26:56.280 --> 27:01.560] It is probably the most radical change in anybody I'd ever witnessed. [27:01.560 --> 27:06.480] And he wanted to be baptized so the world would know that he'd become a Christian. [27:06.480 --> 27:11.520] So he called up Robert Schuller, who back then to Christal Cathedral, your world global television [27:11.520 --> 27:12.520] show. [27:12.520 --> 27:13.520] And he said, I'm going to be baptized. [27:13.520 --> 27:17.200] And he said, well, Schuller, he said to himself, evil, can evil, certainly not a Christian. [27:17.200 --> 27:22.200] So he flew out to Florida to meet with him and he, oh my goodness, he is Jordan again. [27:22.200 --> 27:23.560] He is redeemed. [27:23.560 --> 27:28.920] So he brings him to be baptized and Robert Schuller's son was going to preach that day and they're [27:28.920 --> 27:31.520] going to baptize evil, and he looks out at the congregation. [27:31.520 --> 27:35.560] He tells his story and then he looks at people, do you know Jesus? [27:35.560 --> 27:36.560] Have you met Jesus? [27:36.560 --> 27:38.160] Has he changed your life? [27:38.160 --> 27:46.560] And it was such a childlike, innocent, sincere expression of how God had changed his life [27:46.560 --> 27:53.960] and appealing to people that the pastor ripped up his sermon and said, look, if you want [27:53.960 --> 27:57.040] to come to this, I don't think that church ever had an altar call. [27:57.040 --> 28:01.560] And he said, if you want to come up right now and receive Christ and be baptized on [28:01.560 --> 28:07.160] the spot, come up 700 people came up in two services. [28:07.160 --> 28:09.000] And Christian today carried an article about it. [28:09.000 --> 28:11.240] It was like Pentecost broke up, right? [28:11.240 --> 28:16.440] And so I got to know evil quite well in the later years of his life and we would chat. [28:16.440 --> 28:20.160] He would call me up once a week and we'd chat about things. [28:20.160 --> 28:24.520] And at his, he died maybe a year and a half or so later. [28:24.520 --> 28:30.560] And at his request, if you see his tombstone, it says, believe in Jesus Christ. [28:30.560 --> 28:37.480] And I go, there is one of the most unlikely converse that I think I could ever see is a [28:37.480 --> 28:42.720] guy like evil, who bent his knee, received forgiveness. [28:42.720 --> 28:48.120] And what a testimony to the grace of God that could save the likes of evil, and evil. [28:48.120 --> 28:51.320] And what does that say about the rest of us? [28:51.320 --> 28:56.200] The door to heaven is wide open to all who come into repentance and faith. [28:56.200 --> 28:57.200] Yeah. [28:57.200 --> 29:01.960] And maybe if you just, let's think about the parent, the grandparent, who's just heart [29:01.960 --> 29:05.440] broken over there, the young person in her life, or it could be the other way around. [29:05.440 --> 29:09.440] Maybe it's a young person whose parent or grandparent is still lost. [29:09.440 --> 29:14.840] A word to them, maybe, I'm sure many people do, they go and buy your book and they give [29:14.840 --> 29:18.920] it to the person and they say, you've got to read this, some will, some won't. [29:18.920 --> 29:21.080] You know, that's a little bit out of our control. [29:21.080 --> 29:22.080] Yeah. [29:22.080 --> 29:23.080] It is. [29:23.080 --> 29:26.400] And I think the key thing, you know, so many young people who grow up in the church and [29:26.400 --> 29:29.840] make a profession of faith, they go off to college, they come back at Thanksgiving, say, [29:29.840 --> 29:31.720] yeah, I don't believe it anymore. [29:31.720 --> 29:32.840] And I think a couple of things. [29:32.840 --> 29:33.840] Number one, don't panic. [29:33.840 --> 29:34.840] Yeah. [29:34.840 --> 29:35.840] Don't panic. [29:35.840 --> 29:36.840] It is. [29:36.840 --> 29:41.080] Keep in mind that if they're at a secular university, all of the forces are pulling them [29:41.080 --> 29:42.960] away from their faith. [29:42.960 --> 29:50.560] And they will be lauded for expressing a belief in atheism versus an authentic belief in Jesus [29:50.560 --> 29:51.560] Christ. [29:51.560 --> 29:53.120] So, understand that. [29:53.120 --> 29:55.440] Number one, number two, don't stop praying for them. [29:55.440 --> 29:56.440] Pray for them fervently. [29:56.440 --> 29:58.080] You know, it's interesting. [29:58.080 --> 30:04.240] When you read the account of Jesus' death on the cross, he prayed for non-believers until [30:04.240 --> 30:09.480] his final gasps before he died, you know, the imperfect tense of the Greek suggested he [30:09.480 --> 30:13.840] didn't just say it once, but he kept repeating it during the torture of the crucifixion. [30:13.840 --> 30:14.840] Father forgive them. [30:14.840 --> 30:15.840] Father forgive them. [30:15.840 --> 30:16.840] Father forgive them. [30:16.840 --> 30:17.840] They don't know what they do. [30:17.840 --> 30:19.320] So he's praying for non-believers. [30:19.320 --> 30:24.000] They also depraved their torture into death, the Son of God, until his final gasps on the [30:24.000 --> 30:25.000] cross. [30:25.000 --> 30:29.080] And so we need to pray for our friends and for our family members and so forth who are [30:29.080 --> 30:32.880] outside the faith right now to continue to pray for them. [30:32.880 --> 30:36.440] I met a guy who came to faith in one of the first Billy Graham rallies. [30:36.440 --> 30:37.440] What was that? [30:37.440 --> 30:38.440] 1960s? [30:38.440 --> 30:39.440] Probably 50s? [30:39.440 --> 30:40.440] Yeah. [30:40.440 --> 30:41.440] Yeah. [30:41.440 --> 30:46.600] And he had a brother who was an Ivy League educated attorney, very successful patent attorney [30:46.600 --> 30:49.240] in Los Angeles, who was an atheist. [30:49.240 --> 30:52.680] He tried sharing Jesus with his brother and his brother shut him down, didn't want to [30:52.680 --> 30:54.000] hear about it. [30:54.000 --> 31:01.280] And he said, I prayed for my brother for 48 years and 348 days. [31:01.280 --> 31:02.920] And he came to faith in the end. [31:02.920 --> 31:04.680] He had given him a copy of the case for Christ. [31:04.680 --> 31:06.840] It sat on the guy's bookshelf for years. [31:06.840 --> 31:09.920] He didn't open it, but then he got cancer. [31:09.920 --> 31:13.680] And then he opened the book and he began to realize this is Christianity is not based [31:13.680 --> 31:14.680] on wishful thinking. [31:14.680 --> 31:19.200] It's not based on legend, make, believe or mythology is based on a solid foundation. [31:19.240 --> 31:24.080] Of truth and on his deathbed, he came to faith in Christ. [31:24.080 --> 31:29.680] So I'd say pray for the son or daughter who says they're deconstructing their faith. [31:29.680 --> 31:33.200] And then I would, I would say, you know, it's okay to ask questions. [31:33.200 --> 31:38.680] It's okay to have doubts, you know, but one of the key things is what's motivating you. [31:38.680 --> 31:41.920] And, you know, maybe it's something you don't even want to talk about right now, but ask [31:41.920 --> 31:45.200] yourself, honestly, what is motivating you? [31:45.200 --> 31:51.560] Is it something you want to indulge in that is worldly and that the Bible would prohibit [31:51.560 --> 31:53.840] and therefore you want to find reasons not to believe? [31:53.840 --> 31:58.240] I'm just saying, I'm just asking the question of maybe it's just an authentic sense of [31:58.240 --> 32:04.040] doubt or maybe you're like the 40% of Americans who believe that science disproves the existence [32:04.040 --> 32:05.040] of God. [32:05.040 --> 32:06.040] Right. [32:06.040 --> 32:11.120] So I would say to them, you know, if you could, don't just have a general sense that I don't [32:11.120 --> 32:14.120] believe right down, crystallize it. [32:14.120 --> 32:16.000] What are the objections you have? [32:16.000 --> 32:18.960] Number one, I don't believe because this. [32:18.960 --> 32:21.880] And when you write them down, now you can investigate them. [32:21.880 --> 32:24.000] Now you can check them out. [32:24.000 --> 32:28.120] And you know, my book is got real covers, two of the biggest objections, if God is real [32:28.120 --> 32:30.960] wise or suffering and if God is real, why does he seem so hidden? [32:30.960 --> 32:33.120] Those are the two biggest ones out there. [32:33.120 --> 32:36.720] I also did a book called the case for faith that deals with the top eight objections [32:36.720 --> 32:42.000] that are raised by skeptics, where it's not me talking, but I go out and I see testimonies, [32:42.000 --> 32:47.320] so to speak, from leading scholars and experts with PhDs in this area. [32:47.320 --> 32:54.440] So I think it's too often parents freak out and they scold and they get into despair over [32:54.440 --> 32:55.440] it. [32:55.440 --> 32:56.440] And you know what? [32:56.440 --> 33:01.120] I wrote a book, my only novel, my book of fiction, my daughter's a novelist and quite [33:01.120 --> 33:02.760] good fiction writer. [33:02.760 --> 33:06.600] And she said, Dad, you got to write a fiction book like John Grisham, a legal thriller. [33:06.600 --> 33:07.600] So I did. [33:07.600 --> 33:08.760] And nobody read my book. [33:08.760 --> 33:10.120] It was a big disaster. [33:10.160 --> 33:12.480] Nobody brought my book. [33:12.480 --> 33:18.680] But it's almost like somebody reading half of my book and slamming it shut and saying, [33:18.680 --> 33:19.680] that's strobele. [33:19.680 --> 33:21.200] He's a terrible novelist. [33:21.200 --> 33:23.440] He didn't tie up the loose ends of the plot. [33:23.440 --> 33:27.600] He didn't resolve the tensions between the characters and say, wait a minute, you didn't [33:27.600 --> 33:28.600] read the end of the book. [33:28.600 --> 33:33.920] I got to read the whole book and I would say to someone whose son or daughter is expressing [33:33.920 --> 33:37.680] skepticism about faith now, I would say, you know what, we're not at the end of the [33:37.680 --> 33:38.680] book. [33:38.720 --> 33:40.800] You know, history has not been consummated. [33:40.800 --> 33:43.000] Jesus has not returned yet. [33:43.000 --> 33:47.800] There is time we hope and let the process play out a little bit. [33:47.800 --> 33:53.760] Give your son or daughter some ability to be able to ask these questions and really seek [33:53.760 --> 33:56.040] after answers to satisfy their heart and soul. [33:56.040 --> 34:00.440] Because I believe if they do, they're going to find something that is going to convince [34:00.440 --> 34:04.600] them that this, their faith in Christ would be well placed. [34:05.480 --> 34:08.480] Well, Lee Strobel, it's been such a pleasure to have you. [34:08.480 --> 34:11.600] Is God real exploring the ultimate question of life? [34:11.600 --> 34:17.120] I hope you all would order your copy now and think about the person in your life who you [34:17.120 --> 34:19.200] think would benefit from that. [34:19.200 --> 34:22.080] Great questions, great interviews. [34:22.080 --> 34:23.080] Such a pleasure to have you. [34:23.080 --> 34:24.080] Thank you so much. [34:24.080 --> 34:25.080] Great to meet you. [34:25.080 --> 34:26.080] Pleasure. [34:26.080 --> 34:27.080] Thanks, Lee. [34:27.080 --> 34:30.320] Candid is a podcast from Leading the Way with Dr. Michael Youssef. [34:30.320 --> 34:35.080] Don't forget to connect with our social media pages on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. [34:35.080 --> 34:39.200] And subscribe to Candid Conversations on your favorite podcast platform so that you never [34:39.200 --> 34:40.880] miss an episode. [34:40.880 --> 34:42.520] While they are, please leave a review. [34:42.520 --> 34:44.640] It helps people find us. [34:44.640 --> 34:48.160] As always, thank you for listening to and sharing this episode. Transcription results written to '/home/forge/transcribe.sonicengage.com/releases/20240205231042' directory

christianity,jesus,jonathan youssef,apologetics,lee strobel,does god exist,case for christ,evangelism,candid conversations,leading the way,