Episode 231: Discover Your Calling: Clay Kirkland (Reprise)

[00:00:00] When people are deal that they have that colon to something that's a little beyond them,

[00:00:06] and they're asking questions about them.

[00:00:08] Like I think that that's half the battle that they're asking.

[00:00:11] One of my favorite quotes from the call, the God's Genneth,

[00:00:16] he says that calling is not only a matter of being and doing what we are,

[00:00:21] but also becoming what we are not yet but are called by God to be. Is it time to make a move or a career change? These are important questions to prayerfully consider, and ones I have heard over and over again from people as I have pastored young adults. While thinking about this topic, our team knew we had to have Clay Kirkland back to talk about calling with us.

[00:01:41] Clay is a life coach with over 20 years of experience helping people uncover and unpack

[00:01:46] their unique God-given strengths. Clay and we do appreciate you taking the time and to have a different conversation with us. Well today, Clay, we're talking about work and vocation and calling and you have served for 19 years in Ministry role, University Ministry role, and I'm sure that this issue

[00:03:02] came up quite a number of times with college students who are seeking what their next steps will be, ready and equipped to answer two questions. What am I supposed to do with the rest of my life and who am I supposed to do it with? So they want to know about their callings, they want to know about marriage. That was what we talked about over and over. And so yes, definitely a subject that I had to talk about a lot, but honestly a subject that I love talking about a lot, she'll do. Right. Currently, I have say that the primary question is how do I figure that out? You know, regardless of what it is, whether it's called to be a teacher, I'm called to be a martyr, how do I figure that out? That's kind of where people would land if they didn't come out with it already. Don't imagine there were a lot of people feeling called to be martyrs.

[00:05:41] No.

[00:05:42] Honestly, I ran into two to relearn some things. And one of the things that I would try to do, and it sounds strange because of the subject, but I would try to demystify it by taking some of the spooky

[00:07:05] and that's off of it. I would always try to move them into this idea of what I stole this honestly and I'm giving credit. I'll give you credit for where it comes from. It's from a book called The Call by Ozkin, which I would say is an anchor book for the subject. He said there's no call without a caller. The primary calling then is to know the caller before you understand and pursue what the

[00:08:26] caller is going to give you. or we would start. You mentioned earlier that people were often starting from a position of misinformation. What were some of those misinformation perspectives that you saw the most? An easy one would be that you either got a calling and that meant you were to be in ministry or you didn't get a calling and that meant you were to be in a quote-unquote regular

[00:09:42] job.

[00:09:43] Right.

[00:09:44] Right.

[00:09:45] That there's this sacred secular person. There's your seasons for Jesus. I mean, no one was exempt from display. And these gifts, these talents, these callings, all these things that are kind of on your toolkit, which can be different stages. And sometimes this talent is going to be on this stage and other times this gift is going to be on that stage. But to not think of it as this one shot that if you've heard it, you've passed it in your finished.

[00:12:24] And if you haven't, your failure until you've pluralize that, it's really purposes. But then to think of it's what he delights in is being able to do it with us

[00:15:03] Because that's just how he set it up. He didn't have to

[00:15:06] If he was really into efficiency, he would never would have done this revelation and he does it by way of wisdom. You can put any communication you see from God in one of those two camps. So the revelation once easy, you see that when the burning bush comes, you's going to go with Jews and Gentiles, whereas their comments after weeks of deliberation and prayer and so on and so forth are, it seemed good to us and to the Holy like that. I had a 12 feet of whiteboard in my office and so I would, I'd say, all right, let's list your choices, right? We just have to help. And I'd say, okay, so which one of those are good choices or not bad choices? You know, I'd make them a just, is play a little game with them.

[00:19:00] And so we'd, well, so maybe it was,

[00:19:03] go to this grad school or go to that grad school.

[00:19:06] Like, do they have the program that you want?

[00:19:08] Do you have the funding for it? not a fear that's inspired by God. And so I would always challenge that wrong choice fear. And then honestly, this is just how I've come to understand God and how he parents and shapes us and so on and so forth is that if God's the caller, then you're responsible for what

[00:20:20] you've been called to.

[00:20:22] And if God has chosen in his infinite wisdom to not give you this direct revelation and very concerned with my parenting. You would be very concerned, right? You might even call someone, say, hey, be on the way and take them out. We would never parent our children that way. We would be offended, if not fearful for the wellbeing of children who were inherited that way. So I can't imagine in God's incident goodness

[00:21:43] as our heavenly father that he would parent us

[00:21:46] in that same way. That's just going to be what I'm going to do. That's kind of my quote unquote calling. How do you deal with sort of this, as it is a modern concept? Do you feel like maybe we have too many options at times? We have too many opportunities and we become overwhelmed. Yeah, it certainly would have been easier calendar and therefore He's going to work with you within that time frame or do something beyond that that you can't even see yet. So like it's just reminding them again. And that's why we go back to the idea of

[00:24:20] your primary calling as to the caller in that you work? So I definitely think that that's a part. If we take the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, then we'll see that there's a lot of variety. If I wanted to just

[00:25:41] pull out one verse and I'd say, hey, there was this time where Moses apparently had

[00:26:44] make things clear to us. So he oftentimes repeats things that he says in the same conversation. So the next little passage if you were reading in your Bible would be that he then

[00:26:49] fills gifted artists. So people who are already gifted, he wasn't filling them to make them gifted

[00:26:56] right or nothing right. That's right. He was filling them because they were gifted.

[00:27:01] And so to do the thing that they were gifted for we have now are mechanisms that we have in place are really helpful because it just reminds us, hey, there's actually some great things about you and it can just help us give us language for that. But even more so, I would say,

[00:28:21] just to encourage people

[00:28:23] and because we're all in this process

[00:28:25] is if we're built for multiple things, I'm preparing for this. I thought about my transition, right? From ministry to where I am now, because I would say my quote unquote call to ministry was a little bit more on the direct revelation, illumination side. It was clear and intense,

[00:29:40] and honestly, super natural.

[00:29:41] It was just one of those things.

[00:29:43] It was great.

[00:29:44] And I was able several people, took them to breakfast lunch dinner or coffee. And I said, I'm going to tell you my story of what I've been doing, who I am for about 20 minutes. And then I'm going to ask you what you heard, what stuck out.

[00:31:00] And I'm going to ask you who you know that I should know.

[00:31:05] And that was just as strong and just as special as the peace that I got when God really spoke to me clearly about going into campus ministry. Well, let me ask you about that because, you know, there's so much to

[00:32:20] say about that unity and affirmation. I mean, whether you call it discipleship or mentoring, it doesn't matter what you call it. What matters

[00:33:40] is that it's done. And I would say church, for sure, and again, I showed my cards earlier and don't think that we should just affirm ministry callings because I think all of us are meant to minister no matter what with our giftings and perhaps our passions or desires or whatever he uses those most certainly. But sometimes God does call people out of their comfort zone into an area where they may not feel naturally gifted. How do you advise people on that? And when they're saying, you know, why would God do something like this?

[00:36:21] And is this something that's really happening or am I just imagining it?

[00:36:24] Yeah.

[00:36:25] It's great. there can't be logical fears or whatever else. But that's why the Bible talks about that piece that passes understanding. So you might understand that this is risky, you might understand that this is different, you might understand several things. But if there's a piece that resides within you,

[00:37:40] then that's a real big clue for me to help others say,

[00:37:44] I think this is a green light I think it's wonderful to put food on the table, to do what you have to do, that kind of language is great. And this is clearly in the season, and I'm not trying to make light of anything, because it is a tragic and real moment. But it gets to the point that I would make so many times with

[00:39:03] the kids that I would meet with is,

[00:39:06] I would make them right now what to determine what their calling is to understand

[00:40:20] it from a principal-based standpoint so that then it could be applied in any vocation that they do,

[00:41:21] you know, encourage them to know this. Just please focus on this, that we are at our best

[00:41:26] and we are our most fulfilled

[00:41:30] when we are giving our best away to others.

[00:41:33] That's when we're at our best.

[00:41:35] And so, hey, you've got these gifts,

[00:41:36] these talents, these passions, that's great.

[00:41:39] If you're using them for yourself,

[00:41:42] you will see the law of diminishing returns.

[00:41:47] The first time you do it, you'll feel great about yourself. Like I get in the sense of none of us wanted to do what God doesn't want us to do Like I don't want I don't either but if we were just a pullback and think about God and who he is We would we would write it. We realized pretty quickly that God isn't caught off guard by our swings and misses

[00:43:00] I mean humanity has had the biggest swing in this when it came to sin

[00:43:04] And he found the way to give us redemption and so

[00:44:02] and that's best for us. And so, I think that really circles us back

[00:44:05] to that idea of in Proverbs where it says

[00:44:07] that the glory of God to conceal a matter

[00:44:09] and the glory of kings to search it out,

[00:44:11] in that searching, we have to trust God,

[00:44:13] in that searching, we're gonna find God.

[00:44:16] And that's what's best for us.

[00:44:17] So it's not hide and seek for his own selfish gain

[00:44:23] as much as it is, it's hide and seek

[00:44:25] so that he actually positions us but also to not think that we're out of the game because we've heard one thing that God's part too creative and part too good to stop there. So right. Well, Clay Kirkland, we're so grateful. I do ask if you do one more thing for us. That is if you would close us out in prayer. Absolutely be my honor.

[00:45:45] Father, we thank you so much that you're better than we even think.

[00:47:04] And we thank you, God, that in would just put on display, your love, your peace, and your grace to a world who desperately needs that. And we trust that you'll do all that and more just because you're that good. I'm proud of this in your name, amen. Amen. Clay Kirkland, thank you for joining us again on Candid Conversations to Discuss Work, Vocation and Calling.

[00:47:05] Absolutely.

[00:47:06] Thank you so much for the opportunity.

[00:47:08] Pleasure.

[00:47:09] God bless.