Episode 226: A Fun Way to Cultivate Love for Christ with Your Children: Zack Carden

[00:00:00] There's something about laying down with your kids being through kids at night, just really

[00:00:06] creates that relational bond when reading a book.

[00:00:10] You're doing what sticks.

[00:00:12] And those became special moments for us and so what we were doing was we're trying

[00:00:15] to replicate some of that.

[00:00:17] Take out the guest work because parents are busy and if I'm up young pastor not knowing

[00:00:21] what to do with my kids in the evening, I know there's a lot of moms and dads out there

[00:00:26] going lay people yeah what do we do?

[00:00:30] Hello and welcome to Candid where we never settle for less than the truth.

[00:00:38] I'm your host Jonathan Youssef each week will tackle tough issues, answer hard questions

[00:00:44] and take a candid look at the Christian faith.

[00:00:47] I love that I had the chance to welcome Zach Cardin back to Candid Conversations.

[00:00:53] I've had the honor of working with Zach at the Church of the Apostles for the last 12

[00:00:57] years.

[00:00:58] He recently left our church staff to become the senior pastor of Marietta Community Church.

[00:01:04] Before he left, I wanted to have him on Candid to share about a new children's resource

[00:01:10] that he has launched that my children love.

[00:01:14] In this episode Zach introduces us to Gray Bobby, an endearing cartoon character and podcast

[00:01:20] host on a mission to help parents disciple their children with rich, simple and entertaining

[00:01:27] biblical resources.

[00:01:29] Join us as we explore the origins of Gray Bobby and learn more about this engaging character

[00:01:34] who is featured in devotional content, engaging videos and faithfully shares the love of Christ

[00:01:41] with the little ones in your life.

[00:01:44] Now onto today's episode.

[00:01:47] Today my guest is a return guest.

[00:01:50] It is Zach Cardin and he is here to help us think about how do we teach theology to kids

[00:01:55] and he has come up with a cartoon and a podcast and some really helpful ways that we want

[00:02:04] to equip you parents and grandparents with that will help serve your family and we're

[00:02:10] looking at devotional content, video content.

[00:02:15] It's all good.

[00:02:16] Zach thank you for taking the time to be on Candid Conversations.

[00:02:19] Thank you for having me.

[00:02:20] Yet again.

[00:02:21] Okay so your content, the idea is a cartoon character who is a dog and his name is Gray

[00:02:29] Bobby.

[00:02:30] Gray Bobby and your E with an E and so you need to tell us how you came up with this character

[00:02:36] and the story behind it and then we can talk about what's available for parents to help

[00:02:41] them.

[00:02:43] So Gray Bobby, he came along when I was in seminary.

[00:02:48] I was in a church history class with my professor David Calhoun.

[00:02:55] He was a professor at Covenant, theological seminary and he had a very deep moving voice.

[00:03:02] Anyway, I don't know if that's relevant to the whole conversation.

[00:03:06] Dr. Calhoun told the story of Gray Friars Bobby which some people may know from the movie

[00:03:13] back in the 60s about this dog to no one knows it.

[00:03:17] So no one knows it.

[00:03:19] But it was a little dog, this was in Scotland and I believe the owner's name was John Gray

[00:03:24] ironically.

[00:03:26] And John Gray his little dog would be with him everywhere and medium when he would come

[00:03:32] back from work.

[00:03:33] When John Gray died, Bobby that the dog would go sit by the grave until he was shoot out

[00:03:40] of the cemetery.

[00:03:44] And so every day he would come in, every day he would be shoot out and he just kind of

[00:03:48] became a beloved feature of the community.

[00:03:51] There was actually a statue to Gray Friars Bobby.

[00:03:55] And so that became his name, Gray Friars Bobby.

[00:03:57] And I thought what an awesome illustration of the devotion we should have to Lord.

[00:04:02] And I thought what a wonderful thing would be great to have a character that would teach

[00:04:09] truth to kids.

[00:04:10] So Gray Bobby started as kind of an idea of maybe doing a book or children's book that

[00:04:17] followed the shorter catacism than I discovered there was such thing as a first catacism

[00:04:22] or catacism for young children.

[00:04:25] And so that's where it kind of started and then it got put on the shelf, we started having

[00:04:29] kids.

[00:04:30] We had our first child in seminary and then as my children got older I started doing

[00:04:35] catacism songs.

[00:04:36] I brought the dog character back out but ultimately it was when my kids started listening

[00:04:43] to adventures in Odyssey, they got a CD and a kid's meal through Chick-fil-A.

[00:04:49] And I thought you know they're doing a good job teaching about the Lord and life.

[00:04:56] And I thought we need something uniquely geared towards teaching kids theology because

[00:05:01] there was a lot of stuff at the time that taught more, more, more, more, more, more,

[00:05:05] more holistic type lessons.

[00:05:07] Be good, be nice.

[00:05:09] But there were fewer things that actually taught here's who God is.

[00:05:14] Yeah, attributes of God and character of God.

[00:05:17] And here's what he's done.

[00:05:19] So during my, I was one of my churches, I actually got a soundboard and created a, and

[00:05:25] I don't even remember how I did it.

[00:05:27] It was on a computer.

[00:05:28] I know.

[00:05:29] And I don't remember how I did it.

[00:05:31] How I put a computer.

[00:05:32] The whole room.

[00:05:33] How I did it.

[00:05:34] The beautiful pool room, like back in the old IBM.

[00:05:36] The real, the real.

[00:05:37] Like we're doing in a hollow moonshot here.

[00:05:41] But the soundboard was huge and I think I had it running into a computer and then I had

[00:05:46] to manipulate it on the, I don't remember how I did it.

[00:05:48] But I created this three episode CD that I gave out to friends in the church and their

[00:05:56] kids would listen to it when they would go to sleep and my kids would listen to it.

[00:06:00] And then I forgot about Greybobby for a little while.

[00:06:02] Yeah, then what?

[00:06:03] Then what?

[00:06:04] Then what?

[00:06:05] So Greybobby came back and resurrected him.

[00:06:08] What resurrected him?

[00:06:10] So I did college ministry at Church of the Apostles for my first, about three years.

[00:06:16] During my time there, I met a couple of guys who were going to SCAD.

[00:06:19] That's Savannah College of Art and Design for our international audience.

[00:06:23] Right.

[00:06:24] I started art and design in two creative types, Preston Cook and Thorn Winter.

[00:06:30] And I just saw how gifted they were and I followed them on social media and they did this

[00:06:33] very avant garde thing with puppets and I'm thinking man they do such a great job with

[00:06:39] what they do.

[00:06:41] I started talking to them about Greybobby and gave them that CD and or the files and

[00:06:46] they listened to it and the next thing I know they've come up with a puppet version

[00:06:50] of the strongest story on the CD about a robot that's run amuck.

[00:06:57] I was so impressed by it, but then we started talking about it and they're like this is

[00:07:02] really not feasible to do with puppets because it cost.

[00:07:06] And so you know, a couple years elapsed and they do a whole pilot with animation and

[00:07:12] I was blown away.

[00:07:13] Yeah.

[00:07:14] And you've been able to use that material for VBS, location Bible school here in Atlanta.

[00:07:22] And I mean, I can testify to my children love the Greybobby character and the animation

[00:07:30] and everything.

[00:07:31] So give us a little snapshot of some of the content that you've created in some video

[00:07:36] content.

[00:07:37] So after the pilot we decided we would do a few devotionals.

[00:07:41] We have probably a five part series with me being a human character, so live action

[00:07:49] character that has a really bad accent and then Sherlock Holmes type character.

[00:07:56] And then I'm interacting with Greybobby and Betty the bookworm who is his sidekick who's

[00:08:01] also his adopted sister.

[00:08:03] That's spoiler alert, spoiler alert.

[00:08:06] So we did a devotional series.

[00:08:08] We did an advent devotional series for Christmas.

[00:08:12] We did a Thanksgiving special that we put out and all this is available in the app.

[00:08:17] And then we did some songs with some characters called the earworms.

[00:08:22] And so all of that just what we ran into is more of a, you know, we can't really sustain

[00:08:27] this.

[00:08:28] Yeah.

[00:08:29] So we need to kind of figure out what to do next.

[00:08:32] The video is very of course expensive and time consuming and these guys have full-time

[00:08:36] jobs.

[00:08:37] So we're trying to figure our way around it and then we ended up at the idea that a

[00:08:41] podcast was a whole lot easier to execute.

[00:08:45] And we haven't abandoned the video concept.

[00:08:48] We're working on a seven part series on Knowing God.

[00:08:50] Yes.

[00:08:51] And we've already, we've just about completed the first video and then the second video

[00:08:58] of the script is written.

[00:08:59] But you know, we decided that we want to do devotions and particularly bedtime devotions

[00:09:07] right for kids.

[00:09:09] And there's really a story behind all that of why bedtime devotions because growing up

[00:09:15] I didn't know how to go about doing quite a lot of young dad.

[00:09:18] I was just kind of grasping in the dark here in the taster.

[00:09:21] I'm afraid to ask anybody, okay, how did we do this?

[00:09:24] I don't know how to do this.

[00:09:25] You're the one that's supposed to be teaching us.

[00:09:27] So we just had a children's Bible.

[00:09:31] We read the children's Bible.

[00:09:33] We prayed, we sang a little song, probably like Jesus loves me.

[00:09:38] And then I said the benediction from number six over there.

[00:09:41] I mean, the Lord bless you and keep you in the Lord cause of space to shine upon you.

[00:09:44] Be gracious to you.

[00:09:45] The Lord turned his face towards you and give you peace.

[00:09:46] And I said that over them every night, most nights.

[00:09:51] And there's something about laying down with your kids being through kids at night.

[00:09:55] This really creates that relational bond.

[00:09:58] So when you mix your faith in with that and this is just a complete accidental discovery,

[00:10:03] a providential discovery I should say that when you do things at night with your kids

[00:10:08] like that, when you're laying down with them, when you're reading the book, when you're

[00:10:12] doing, do it sticks.

[00:10:14] It just sticks.

[00:10:15] Yeah.

[00:10:16] And those became special moments for us.

[00:10:18] And so what we were doing was we're trying to replicate some of that.

[00:10:20] Take out the guest work because parents are busy.

[00:10:24] If I'm a pastor, young pastor, not knowing what to do with my kids in the evening,

[00:10:29] I know that there's a lot of moms and dads out there going lay people.

[00:10:32] Yeah.

[00:10:33] What do we do?

[00:10:34] So you've graded these bedtime devotionals and just for those of you parents who are

[00:10:39] listening to this, you can pull up whatever podcast platform you're listening to right now

[00:10:44] and type in gray, bobby, g-r-e-y, bo, b-b-y, and it should populate but it's gray, bobby,

[00:10:51] bedtime devotionals.

[00:10:53] You can listen to that.

[00:10:54] We've listened.

[00:10:55] There's currently three episodes probably by the time this episode airs, you'll have a

[00:10:59] number more.

[00:11:00] But I've enjoyed it.

[00:11:03] We do devotionals.

[00:11:04] We, you know, I wasn't like you.

[00:11:05] I knew what I was doing just kidding.

[00:11:08] Right.

[00:11:09] You're good.

[00:11:10] Even close.

[00:11:11] You know, we had our little routines, similar song, prayer, but I will say my kids really

[00:11:17] look forward to it even just having done it the last three nights.

[00:11:21] I know that tonight my son's going to say, can we do another one?

[00:11:24] And I'll say we're out of new ones and he'll still ask to repeat them.

[00:11:28] But it's sweet because even if so you're going to these will be released once a week.

[00:11:33] Right.

[00:11:34] So I would say parents what it's doing is giving you even a model of what you can be doing

[00:11:41] just in the concept of singing a song over your children, praying a prayer with them,

[00:11:47] get out the storybook Bible, get out, you know, Kevin DeYoung's big Bible.

[00:11:51] You know, any of those things read through it, ask some questions because it's true.

[00:11:55] It's a really intimate time.

[00:11:57] Your kids are kind of winding down from the day, you know, obviously some have more energy

[00:12:01] than others but even my endless energy son is he knows that this is kind of like it's

[00:12:06] time to kind of listen and be quiet.

[00:12:10] And I think even providing a model, you know, once a week you can listen with your kids

[00:12:14] to the devotional and then now hopefully this is set something up for you where you can

[00:12:18] follow this pattern.

[00:12:19] There's routine routine was big.

[00:12:22] We were doing routine even when our child was little so when someone said to us, it's

[00:12:27] very important to do a routine for your kids so they signals them.

[00:12:31] They know what's time to go to sleep.

[00:12:34] And so we were already doing a routine with them and it was very basic.

[00:12:39] It was a baby.

[00:12:41] So he didn't really know it was just a signaling work we're going to get.

[00:12:46] But yeah, I think that's great to get into the cadence of regular evening times together

[00:12:52] because before you know it, before you know and I'm telling you this is with kids, I have

[00:12:57] three kids in college, one child who's about a year and a half away, technically you have

[00:13:01] two kids in college.

[00:13:03] Technically two now, sorry, that's right, I have one that graduated, thank you for reminding

[00:13:07] me.

[00:13:08] I'm sure you would appreciate it.

[00:13:09] I am really old now.

[00:13:10] You know, you have.

[00:13:11] You have.

[00:13:12] There's this sense in which you look at these years and you're busy and you're frustrated

[00:13:17] and you just want them to go to bed.

[00:13:19] Yeah, right.

[00:13:20] So you can get a little piece.

[00:13:22] But you also have to remember you only have so many years.

[00:13:26] And these are the most crucial time.

[00:13:29] This is the time when the roots are being implanted in the soil of faith.

[00:13:34] So without you know, without nurturing that, you know, they're going to be rootless.

[00:13:39] Yeah.

[00:13:40] If we wait till the point where they can reason, then it gets a little bit more difficult,

[00:13:46] the you know, it ups the ante there.

[00:13:49] So getting truce in front of them early and careful what kind.

[00:13:54] So yes, moralism.

[00:13:56] Yeah, I wanted to ask about that.

[00:13:58] Let's talk about this.

[00:13:59] Moralism is a.

[00:14:02] It's a dangerous thing.

[00:14:03] Yeah.

[00:14:04] It's Sunday school though.

[00:14:05] I mean, it's rampant in Sunday schools.

[00:14:07] It's rampant everywhere.

[00:14:08] Great churches and even some great video content from Christian, like for kids.

[00:14:13] Yeah.

[00:14:14] A lot of it, you know, be good, do good.

[00:14:16] And that's not the much is true, which is true, but that's not the best of the gospel.

[00:14:20] That's the fruit of the gospel.

[00:14:21] That's the fruit of the gospel.

[00:14:22] That's what comes after Christ changes our heart.

[00:14:25] And then as we're being sanctified more and more as we mortify the flesh and exhibit the

[00:14:33] fruit of the spirit.

[00:14:35] So if you get the cart before the horse, it changes the message.

[00:14:39] The message is be good and moralism.

[00:14:41] Yeah, because I mean when kids get older, if the foundation that's been laid is sort of

[00:14:46] moralism with some Jesus sprinkled on top, right?

[00:14:50] You know, they're going to say, well, I've been a good person.

[00:14:52] And this is interesting.

[00:14:53] I had this conversation recently with someone which is like, and I know you want to talk

[00:14:57] about this, which is what Ligonier puts out, which is the state of theology for those

[00:15:02] of you who don't know.

[00:15:03] It's an annual report that they put out or maybe semi-annual and it shows what essentially

[00:15:09] evangelical Christians believe.

[00:15:11] And it's sad to say that most of them feel like, you know, if I'm a good person and I've

[00:15:17] said a few prayers, there's nothing about lifelong commitment to Christ or faith and sanctification.

[00:15:25] None of those things are all absent.

[00:15:28] And it's probably tied to, you know, the old 80s and 90s youth group ministry models,

[00:15:35] which was moralism and party and everything's fun and fine.

[00:15:39] And kids run into problems in their life and they don't know how scripture or, you know,

[00:15:46] the spirit ministers to them or everything is inaccessible it seems like.

[00:15:50] Yeah, I mean, the podcast series is interesting.

[00:15:52] So I'll come back to the theology aspect.

[00:15:55] The podcast is interesting in that we're going through the proverbs.

[00:16:00] Proverbs can be dangerous, right?

[00:16:03] We were told in seminary don't preach the proverbs.

[00:16:06] Right.

[00:16:07] I'm in the middle of a Sunday school class now teaching the proverbs very carefully, very

[00:16:10] carefully because the problem with the proverbs is they're great observations, nine times

[00:16:17] out of ten those are truths but also you've got to be grounded in the reality of the gospel.

[00:16:23] You can't get to this kind of merit based thing.

[00:16:29] So what we're looking at with these proverbs is we're looking at, yes, there are things

[00:16:34] that happen in our lives, there are ways we go astray and we need to be aware of those

[00:16:38] things.

[00:16:39] Yeah.

[00:16:40] But ultimately we keep coming back to the reality that if Christ is not in this, the

[00:16:42] Holy Spirit is not helping us, we can't do these things or it's for nothing.

[00:16:46] Right.

[00:16:47] We've got to ask for this help.

[00:16:48] Yeah.

[00:16:49] We're doing this for Christ.

[00:16:52] What am I doing this for?

[00:16:54] It kind of goes back to purity culture, okay?

[00:16:57] Purity culture, it's called candid conversations by the way.

[00:16:59] We're being candid, I'll be candid with you.

[00:17:01] My thing with purity cultures is it's not a great thing to save yourself from marriage but

[00:17:06] why?

[00:17:07] Yeah.

[00:17:08] Why are you?

[00:17:09] If it's not for the glory of Christ and the love of Christ, you're going to fail.

[00:17:12] Yeah.

[00:17:13] You're going to fail and it's going to be hard enough even if it's for the glory of Christ.

[00:17:18] But your heart must be to glorify God in this and seek His help in it.

[00:17:25] That old purity culture offered all of this, you know, hey, if you just do this, this

[00:17:29] will happen.

[00:17:30] Yes.

[00:17:31] It's that old plug it into the equation A plus B equals C.

[00:17:35] Yeah.

[00:17:36] And the problem with that is that it really places the focus on me getting something out

[00:17:43] of this.

[00:17:44] The reality of faith is that if you look at the hall of faith, if you look at what the

[00:17:48] author of Hebrews is saying, hey, sometimes these great things happened and then mid passage

[00:17:54] is like, but then they were stone or saw them in two.

[00:17:57] And so sometimes your faith is going to bring negative consequences, positive and negative

[00:18:02] consequences.

[00:18:03] So we've got to keep this stuff before our kids.

[00:18:06] We've got to be cultivating faith.

[00:18:08] Yeah.

[00:18:09] And then obedience is the fruit that comes out of faith.

[00:18:12] I think that the best way to describe it is through a song called Love Constraining

[00:18:17] to obedience that I learned in college.

[00:18:21] That was one of those revived hymns that are you have to see the law by Christ fulfilled

[00:18:27] to hear his pardoning voice changes a slave into a child and duty into choice.

[00:18:33] That is obedience that flows from the gospel versus moralism.

[00:18:38] And that's what we're trying to do.

[00:18:39] We're trying to cultivate a love for Christ.

[00:18:42] And how can you cultivate a love for Christ that they don't know?

[00:18:45] And theology is knowing who God is.

[00:18:48] Yeah.

[00:18:49] I mean, let's talk about this for a second.

[00:18:51] There's not a lot of kids content out there that's doing this.

[00:18:56] The field is growing and I think it's a great thing.

[00:18:59] We talked to Preston and Preston's wife, Christina, who's the voice of Betty and has been

[00:19:04] an incredible blessing in this whole process giving us that female perspective and that

[00:19:08] mom's perspective on things that we just don't have as dads.

[00:19:12] We're excited about other people being in this arena.

[00:19:15] That's one of the things that Preston said, I remember he said, we want to be one of many

[00:19:20] because there's not just one sesame street, right?

[00:19:24] There's not just one door of the explorer and there's not just one, but there's a whole

[00:19:29] panoply of secular educational shows for kids.

[00:19:34] Why can't there be a whole panoply of good, theologically rich educational shows for kids?

[00:19:41] Yeah.

[00:19:42] I want to see.

[00:19:43] We want to see a revival of that.

[00:19:45] You can see Sprouts sprouting up in different areas.

[00:19:47] I know you've interviewed some people who are already engaged in that and we're excited

[00:19:54] about that.

[00:19:55] It's not daunting to us at all.

[00:19:57] We want to put out what we put out there and let God do what He will with it.

[00:20:02] So parents are listening to this, they're feeling convicted, they want to do it.

[00:20:06] We'll reiterate how to find the podcast.

[00:20:08] What are the other resources available?

[00:20:12] Graybobby resources.

[00:20:13] Go to Graybobby.com.

[00:20:15] It'll lead you to the app, it'll lead you to the Roku app, it'll lead to the podcast.

[00:20:20] Everything is there.

[00:20:22] And there's content there and we will update the podcast content quite frequently now.

[00:20:30] That's going to be the main thing until we kind of get critical mass to be able to focus

[00:20:35] on entirely our resources on the animation.

[00:20:41] That's not going to be as prevalent, but we're working towards them.

[00:20:43] We believe God is going to provide them.

[00:20:44] We're going to get there.

[00:20:46] But during this time we're really just trying to get these stories and these characters in

[00:20:50] front of families.

[00:20:53] So that families can fall in love with these characters and buy into the vision of what

[00:20:56] Graybobby is all about.

[00:20:59] Well as a parent of young children, my wife and I are always talking with other families

[00:21:05] about there's not a lot of great Christian books, there's not a lot of great even media

[00:21:12] content.

[00:21:13] It's all whether it's moralism or just completely secular.

[00:21:18] It's just so encouraging to find something that I know is going to teach good principles

[00:21:24] and that my kids actually want to engage.

[00:21:26] It's not something where they're like this is terrible.

[00:21:29] It's not well done or whatever.

[00:21:31] This is done at a very high level.

[00:21:36] These guys are so great.

[00:21:37] So the one of the things I love about this is I will write a script and I'll try to inject

[00:21:42] a little humor, but I'm not as funny as these guys.

[00:21:44] They're really good at throwing in things that will make you laugh.

[00:21:49] Even just for mom and dad sometimes I've found myself laughing at certain things that my

[00:21:53] son will miss.

[00:21:56] That was so wonderful about Veggie Tales is that the Phil Vissier did an incredible job

[00:22:02] throwing in humor that parents would get whether it was something from Monty Python or

[00:22:06] whatever it was that he threw in there in his sense of humor.

[00:22:10] Thorn and Preston are like that.

[00:22:11] They'll throw in things that are just absolutely hysterical.

[00:22:15] To me, we've had our launch party and I was listening to the first three podcasts driving

[00:22:20] down through Atlanta traffic and I was laughed out loud in a couple places because I didn't

[00:22:25] write that into the script.

[00:22:27] They put that in the script and I didn't only heard one side of it because I'm doing my

[00:22:30] vocal parts.

[00:22:31] They're doing their vocal parts and I don't hear the finished product.

[00:22:36] I listen to it on the podcast.

[00:22:37] Till it's too late.

[00:22:39] Okay, Gray Bobby, GREY, BOBBY, Gray Bobby Bedtime Devotional's podcast app in the App Store

[00:22:48] and we're looking forward to more and more content, both video podcasts related.

[00:22:56] Maybe one day you'll produce a book.

[00:22:58] Yeah, we're hopeful that we'll produce a book.

[00:23:00] And part of the thing behind this is that you have a pastor who's looking at the theological

[00:23:07] – that's kind of missing in a whole lot of what's out there.

[00:23:10] Yeah, it's good stuff that's out there.

[00:23:11] Yes.

[00:23:12] I'm a pastor theological training 22 years as an ordained minister.

[00:23:16] So I've been around the block a few times.

[00:23:19] I raised kids.

[00:23:20] I raised kids.

[00:23:21] So I'm coming at it from more of that input.

[00:23:26] We do hope that we can get to books.

[00:23:28] I've written books that were self-published, of course, but I'm hopeful that eventually we'll

[00:23:34] be able to release some book content.

[00:23:38] Right now we love the format of podcasts because mainly that's where millennials are and

[00:23:45] they're the ones with the parents now.

[00:23:47] Yeah.

[00:23:48] Well, I know there's parents and grandparents that are listening to this and hopefully by

[00:23:53] now they've already downloaded the app and sent you straight to number one on podcast.

[00:24:00] Zach, this is just such helpful content.

[00:24:02] We're so grateful for it.

[00:24:03] So grateful for your heart, for ministry, for kids.

[00:24:06] Again, people listen to this, find it, download it, use it with your kids and your grand

[00:24:11] kids.

[00:24:12] They'll be blessed.

[00:24:13] You'll be blessed.

[00:24:14] Zach, pardon.

[00:24:15] Thank you so much for being on candid conversations.

[00:24:17] Thank you, Jonathan.

[00:24:20] Candid is a podcast from leading the way with Dr. Michael Yusef.

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